I've been crazy busy with school and gaven't had much time to be online. I do want to discuss something that was blogged about me and e-mailed to me by a few of you.
Some "stranger" blogged my identity and erased it 48 hours later. If you saw this blog that was created just to "expose me" (if you had razingruth in a daily google search, you might have seen what I am talking about), I am asking you keep it to yourself and not repost my name or address. The author of the site was almost certainly an old member of our home church. My dad, so I am told, was even more worried than I am about my name being given and therefore linking my story to him and he asked the author to remove the information. I won't lie- the things this person said about my leaving my family had grains of truth. I did write my dad asking for money (sort of). I sent him a registered letter, that legal aid helped me draft, inquiring about my inheritance from a familly member who passed away. The deceased supposedly left an amount to be divided between all us kids and I never saw it. I did not "beg" my dad for cash or threaten to wrongfully sue him if he didn't "pay up". I also didn't sleep around- that is not why I broke my engagement. I'll explain what happened in time.
Yes, I am struggling financially but I never threatened to blackmail my dad!
Thank you to those who alerted me to this.
Wednesday, April 28, 2010
Friday, April 23, 2010
More questions asked.
I would also like to know if QF families would continue to have Duggar-size families if not for daughters who are effectively unpaid au pairs (like the older Duggar daughters)? If a family has 10 boys, for example, how is the enormous domestic workload handled? Do church members come in and help cook, clean, etc.? Do young girls from other QF families come in to help for a few hours a day? Don't know if there were any such scenarios in your association of QF/ATI families.
There are several all boy QF families. They don't tend to reach the quantity of kids ala' Duggar or Bates but then again even most QF families consider 10 to be a lot. In my experience, all boy QF families tend to have mothers who age very quickly (that may be why they have fewer children, now that I think about it). These women are some of the busiest mothers I know because they have less help than if they'd had female children. You do see, in the better families, where the men and boys step up and make some "housework" masculine. The Arndt family who live in Illinois, friends of our family, have all boys and one girl, born later, and the boys did household chores but they're a strong family who helps mom. I've seen it go the other way where certain dads don't want their boys doing certain chores because they're fear it will feminize the boy. Unless there's a tragedy or illness, I've never heard of girls from other families going to stay with other families to help lighten the load. Most Gothard-follower, dads would see this as letting their daughter outside their protection. We did help local families out for a couple of hours if there was a temporary need. Boys go to other families for apprenticeships and work studies.
Ruth, I have a question for you ... I've been doing a lot of reading about Michael and Debi Pearl and their appalling books, especially in the wake of poor Lydia Schatz's murder. I've heard the Pearls are very influential in conservative Christian homeschooling circles. Were your parents and/or their friends big Pearl fans?
I think most all QF know the Pearl philosophy. Some follow it, some follow something else. QF families are more likely to follow VF or BG/ATI child rearing discipline ideas. I think QF families are like other families in the sense that they take what they will and leave what they don't. Almost all QF families follow some piece of Pearl wisdom. My dad spoke of them highly (towards the end of my time in his home), if that answers your question.
1) How are holidays celebrated? Not just religious ones like christmas and Easter but Independence Day and so forth? Did you ever have your birthday pre-empted by Easter?
Holidays relating to Jesus were celebrated with a focus on Jesus. Other holidays were less recognized or ignored - I never went trick-or-treating, for example. Fourth of July WAS celebrated well! ATIers are fiercely patriotic people (*we* just wanted America back "to it's roots"). (Note: the history you learn as an ATI kid is that America was God's created land for Christians. I don't believe that now.) I don't remember my birthday ever being preempted because if it was, I wouldn't have been celebrating it that day, my mom would've moved it to another day for cake.
2) Did you have any pets, or were the children enough to take care of?
We had a dog at one point. ATI doesn't have an official position (to my knowledge) on keeping pets. It's a family decision.
3) Did you ever go to any Gothard-sponsored conferences, retreats, or gatherings? What were they like?
Yes. They were all different. I'm not trying to be vague, it's just that I went to so many that for me it's like trying to tell someone else how many school plays or field trips I went on over the course of my life. It would be hard to tell you about each one, or the broader experience, in one paragraph because there were so many and each was a different experience. My dad was a Gothard friend! My whole life was a Gothard sponsored event.
4) I recall from an earlier post (or maybe I'm imagining it, quite possible given my brain) that when you left the movement someone said, "Why? What did Bill Gothard ever do to you?" -- like it was worse you were "betraying" Bill. Is that wretched man essentially revered?
He's regarded in kind of the way you see Catholics regard the Pope. Not holy, really, but somehow respected because he's the authority on earth. Does that make sense?
There are several all boy QF families. They don't tend to reach the quantity of kids ala' Duggar or Bates but then again even most QF families consider 10 to be a lot. In my experience, all boy QF families tend to have mothers who age very quickly (that may be why they have fewer children, now that I think about it). These women are some of the busiest mothers I know because they have less help than if they'd had female children. You do see, in the better families, where the men and boys step up and make some "housework" masculine. The Arndt family who live in Illinois, friends of our family, have all boys and one girl, born later, and the boys did household chores but they're a strong family who helps mom. I've seen it go the other way where certain dads don't want their boys doing certain chores because they're fear it will feminize the boy. Unless there's a tragedy or illness, I've never heard of girls from other families going to stay with other families to help lighten the load. Most Gothard-follower, dads would see this as letting their daughter outside their protection. We did help local families out for a couple of hours if there was a temporary need. Boys go to other families for apprenticeships and work studies.
Ruth, I have a question for you ... I've been doing a lot of reading about Michael and Debi Pearl and their appalling books, especially in the wake of poor Lydia Schatz's murder. I've heard the Pearls are very influential in conservative Christian homeschooling circles. Were your parents and/or their friends big Pearl fans?
I think most all QF know the Pearl philosophy. Some follow it, some follow something else. QF families are more likely to follow VF or BG/ATI child rearing discipline ideas. I think QF families are like other families in the sense that they take what they will and leave what they don't. Almost all QF families follow some piece of Pearl wisdom. My dad spoke of them highly (towards the end of my time in his home), if that answers your question.
1) How are holidays celebrated? Not just religious ones like christmas and Easter but Independence Day and so forth? Did you ever have your birthday pre-empted by Easter?
Holidays relating to Jesus were celebrated with a focus on Jesus. Other holidays were less recognized or ignored - I never went trick-or-treating, for example. Fourth of July WAS celebrated well! ATIers are fiercely patriotic people (*we* just wanted America back "to it's roots"). (Note: the history you learn as an ATI kid is that America was God's created land for Christians. I don't believe that now.) I don't remember my birthday ever being preempted because if it was, I wouldn't have been celebrating it that day, my mom would've moved it to another day for cake.
2) Did you have any pets, or were the children enough to take care of?
We had a dog at one point. ATI doesn't have an official position (to my knowledge) on keeping pets. It's a family decision.
3) Did you ever go to any Gothard-sponsored conferences, retreats, or gatherings? What were they like?
Yes. They were all different. I'm not trying to be vague, it's just that I went to so many that for me it's like trying to tell someone else how many school plays or field trips I went on over the course of my life. It would be hard to tell you about each one, or the broader experience, in one paragraph because there were so many and each was a different experience. My dad was a Gothard friend! My whole life was a Gothard sponsored event.
4) I recall from an earlier post (or maybe I'm imagining it, quite possible given my brain) that when you left the movement someone said, "Why? What did Bill Gothard ever do to you?" -- like it was worse you were "betraying" Bill. Is that wretched man essentially revered?
He's regarded in kind of the way you see Catholics regard the Pope. Not holy, really, but somehow respected because he's the authority on earth. Does that make sense?
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
GOT IT!
Thanks to all of your fine suggestions, I got a job!
Technically, I don't get paid so I don't know if it's a "job", but I get room, board, a gas allowance and car to use, and spending money for activities with the kids. It's perfect. I was hoping to make a little money for the coming year but this will do fine (beggars can't be choosers).
The family has two children (ages 10 and 11) that will be my responsibility. The kids love to be outdoors (a definite plus!). I'll be "on the clock" Sunday night through Friday afternoon, with weekends off, unless I want to accompany the family on weekend trips. I go with them on the two week vacation, too! They have an "extra car" (that sounds so extravagant) which will be mine to shuffle the kids around in or take them on fun outings. Best of all, they may want to use me during spring breaks and winter breaks if all goes well. I'm so excited.
Now - do I tell them about my history or my blog or would those be considered "personal"?
Technically, I don't get paid so I don't know if it's a "job", but I get room, board, a gas allowance and car to use, and spending money for activities with the kids. It's perfect. I was hoping to make a little money for the coming year but this will do fine (beggars can't be choosers).
The family has two children (ages 10 and 11) that will be my responsibility. The kids love to be outdoors (a definite plus!). I'll be "on the clock" Sunday night through Friday afternoon, with weekends off, unless I want to accompany the family on weekend trips. I go with them on the two week vacation, too! They have an "extra car" (that sounds so extravagant) which will be mine to shuffle the kids around in or take them on fun outings. Best of all, they may want to use me during spring breaks and winter breaks if all goes well. I'm so excited.
Now - do I tell them about my history or my blog or would those be considered "personal"?
Saturday, April 17, 2010
Interview with a gimp
Interviewing for jobs when you're on crutches does not inspire confidence in your potential employer. I went on two interviews this week and didn't get either job. They were a nannying position and a library assistant. I didn't expect to land the library assistant spot because it required "paid experience" and I have volunteer experience. Between leaving my home and coming here, I babysat, so I thought I had the nanny job sewed up and in the bag. They went with another girl who was younger and "could keep up with the children better".
There was another strange comment she made that made me want to ask your opinions. The mom and dad were only a year older than me. When the mom called me to tell me they went with the other girl (which was nice of her to call me), I asked her what I might be able to do to improve my next interview if she didn't mind telling me. She said it was the leg and that I had made her uncomfortable by the way I spoke to her husband. I don't know how I spoke to him that made her uncomfortable! I was polite and that's all. I didn't flirt or find him attractive in any way - I have Harris. That's a strange thing to say isn't it?
Back to the summer job hunt. I have one more nanny interview and I want it to go well so I would appreciate all the feedback I can get. It's a summer only job with a family of five kids. I want to mention my background without mentioning the QF. Should I do that? What can I do to downplay the cast?
There was another strange comment she made that made me want to ask your opinions. The mom and dad were only a year older than me. When the mom called me to tell me they went with the other girl (which was nice of her to call me), I asked her what I might be able to do to improve my next interview if she didn't mind telling me. She said it was the leg and that I had made her uncomfortable by the way I spoke to her husband. I don't know how I spoke to him that made her uncomfortable! I was polite and that's all. I didn't flirt or find him attractive in any way - I have Harris. That's a strange thing to say isn't it?
Back to the summer job hunt. I have one more nanny interview and I want it to go well so I would appreciate all the feedback I can get. It's a summer only job with a family of five kids. I want to mention my background without mentioning the QF. Should I do that? What can I do to downplay the cast?
Friday, April 16, 2010
More FAQ answers
, I could assume the pregnant sister is in her late teens. But you never mentioned anything about any of your sisters being married. Could you please clarify?
Also, about the shaving, you mentioned that you weren't allowed in the bathroom alone. How did you get away with shaving without anyone knowing right away?
I thought I'd talked about that here but I guess it was on the NLQ chat room. My brother's wife (my sister) was the pregnant one referred to in that post. We don't use the term "in law". She married my brother, helped me find my way out, so she's my sister. :) I do see how it was confusing.
I answered the shaving legs question in an older comment thread but I'll answer it again since it was missed. My bathroom buddies were my little sisters or my mom. If my mom was in with me, I didn't shave that week. If my sisters were with me, I could wait for a younger one who wouldn't know what I was doing. That an an opaque shower curtain with velcro tabs was my defense.
Do you think any of the Duggar children have a chance of escaping? Do you see aspects of yourself in any of them?
I don't know enough about the Duggar children to make an informed opinion. Numbers say that some of them will leave the fold. I think I had a post on this? I also see that they're in a totally different situation than we were. The Duggars aren't as isolated as they could be because of the show. They're getting out and seeing the world (even in a limited, observed fashihon). They're meeting people (from the camera to sound guys, to tour guides) they wouldn't normally meet. Those things suggest that they're seeing that the wolves aren't always dangerous wolves. They also have a comfortable lifestyle that most QF families don't enjoy and that may actually work to keep them in the fold. If TLC is keeping money for the kids, and paying the adult kids, it may help them with the debt free life and set them up for QF. Duggar is a brand and keeping the brand intact has an important role in keeping them comfortable. I think the older kids understand that.
I'd also like to know if there was/is any genuine affection shown to the kids in ATI/Bill Gothard families? Are there hugs given? Kisses? Or is it just one big Satan-fest if affection is displayed?
I think every family is different. Hugs and kisses aren't outlawed - just regulated. Ha ha! We were allowed to kiss our same sex siblings on the cheeks and side hug our brothers. We could do this anytime and were encouraged to show affection to our younger siblings especially as an encouragement. My dad didn't hug but that was more just his own boundary. He wasn't very affectionate. My mom was.
I can't answer the question about sex because I've never had it.
Also, about the shaving, you mentioned that you weren't allowed in the bathroom alone. How did you get away with shaving without anyone knowing right away?
I thought I'd talked about that here but I guess it was on the NLQ chat room. My brother's wife (my sister) was the pregnant one referred to in that post. We don't use the term "in law". She married my brother, helped me find my way out, so she's my sister. :) I do see how it was confusing.
I answered the shaving legs question in an older comment thread but I'll answer it again since it was missed. My bathroom buddies were my little sisters or my mom. If my mom was in with me, I didn't shave that week. If my sisters were with me, I could wait for a younger one who wouldn't know what I was doing. That an an opaque shower curtain with velcro tabs was my defense.
Do you think any of the Duggar children have a chance of escaping? Do you see aspects of yourself in any of them?
I don't know enough about the Duggar children to make an informed opinion. Numbers say that some of them will leave the fold. I think I had a post on this? I also see that they're in a totally different situation than we were. The Duggars aren't as isolated as they could be because of the show. They're getting out and seeing the world (even in a limited, observed fashihon). They're meeting people (from the camera to sound guys, to tour guides) they wouldn't normally meet. Those things suggest that they're seeing that the wolves aren't always dangerous wolves. They also have a comfortable lifestyle that most QF families don't enjoy and that may actually work to keep them in the fold. If TLC is keeping money for the kids, and paying the adult kids, it may help them with the debt free life and set them up for QF. Duggar is a brand and keeping the brand intact has an important role in keeping them comfortable. I think the older kids understand that.
I'd also like to know if there was/is any genuine affection shown to the kids in ATI/Bill Gothard families? Are there hugs given? Kisses? Or is it just one big Satan-fest if affection is displayed?
I think every family is different. Hugs and kisses aren't outlawed - just regulated. Ha ha! We were allowed to kiss our same sex siblings on the cheeks and side hug our brothers. We could do this anytime and were encouraged to show affection to our younger siblings especially as an encouragement. My dad didn't hug but that was more just his own boundary. He wasn't very affectionate. My mom was.
I can't answer the question about sex because I've never had it.
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
More FAQ Answers
Please continue to post short questions for this FAQ in the first thread so I can keep my place. Thank you!
I'm curious about your transition into college, and how your upbringing has affected your class choices and interactions with other students.
My transition from home schooled, "preparing to stay at home" young lady to college woman was long and very gradual. As I've said before, it took a few years to get my pre-reqs in place and educate myself enough in some areas in order to do well on standardized testing and placement exams. My class choices are dictated, mostly, be the university curriculum and what's available. Now that I'm as "caught up" as any freshman, and I'm just finishing my freshman year, (maybe I have enough credits for a sophmore but I'll be here at least three more years), my upbrining doesn't affect that.
what the ATI views on Judaism were, especially since it seems that there are aspects of the ATI life that draw heavily from Orthodox Judaism.
Short answer- Judaism is an older religion that Christianity so it was respected but now they'd say Jewish folks are "wrong" because they don't recognize Christ's salvation.
Do I let my mom off the hook?
In some ways I do. That may not be right from a standpoint of accountability and it seems to have sprung some debate in my comments section but the answer is complicated. I hold my mom responsible for some things: the decision to marry my father, originally, perhaps, or the decision to follow my dad into Gothardism. However, I feel for her like I feel sympathy for the guy who bought a crappy car because of a suave salesman. In my mom's case, she had a whole team of salesman working on her. By the time she started to see the choice she'd really made, she had small children and had been told that she had no where to go. My grandparents would have taken her back in at that point and helped her. But my dad and everyone near her was telling her she'd be leaving a righteous life and their protection. Some one brought up Vyckie at NLQ. Vyckie is insanely strong for being able to leave with her children and she paid a heavy price (financially, emotionally) for it. I cut my mom slack, whether it's right or not, because I can see how limited her perspective was.
If I seem to let her slide in accountability, it's because I still identify with her - I almost became her. My therapist says that we tend to cut our "safe parent" more slack because we identify with them most. When we start to criticize them, we're getting close to criticizing ourselves. I guess I'm not there yet. If I have to criticize her, then I have to examine my part in perpetuating the abuses I saw around me. I doled out some swats to the butt and followed my father's house rules, even after I was at an age to know it was wrong.
I was going to ask if you would ever speak out even more vocally and publicly than this [very brave] blog, but Anonymous already suggested it. Do you think you would ever pursue bringing this to national attention?
Would I EVER? Yes, probably. Is that going to be anytime soon? I think the blog will be it for now. I *need* my anonymity for several reasons right now. Giving my information to Vyckie caused a panic attack of epic proportions. I can't imagine doing more right now. When Rani is out of the house and safe and Blessing is older or my father dies, then I'll feel better about it.
First Question: Do you now consider your upbringing to be a cult?
Yes.
Second Question: Where you the first to leave and if not, who left first and how are they dealing with life now and are you close?
I won't divulge my siblings stories out of respect. It's their story to tell, not mine. I wasn't the first to have doubts, if that's what you're asking. An older brother followed the path before him and found it to be the wrong path for he and his family. I am very close to them and getting closer every day.
1. How IS the leg??? ;-)
2. What are your plans for the summer? Will you take classes or work or both?
3. Is it safe to tell us what year of study you're in, or does that need to remain confidential? (Completely understand if it does.)
4. Does Harris know about your blog, and if he does, does he read it?
5. Speaking of reading, what books have you been enjoying lately?
1. Healing! I'm still on crutches (my armpits hurt like you know what). I don't have any pain unless my clumsy self bangs it on something. No need for pain meds of any kind anymore. It's just inconvenient now.
2. My summer plans were hampered by my leg. I was going to get a job and do some hiking. I don't know how that will work now. The cast will be off around May 10th. I may nanny for a family in town in exchange for room and food. I'll still need to find some spending money income. I was going to take summer school but budget cuts at the state level blew that when my class was cancelled.
3. I'm a frosh. I consider myself a freshman, but I think I have enough credits to be an early sophomore.
4. Harris knows about my blog. He doesn't read it every day or comment.
5. I haven't pleasure read in a while. Too much school reading to be done. :) I started one of the Twilight books and I like it so far.
I'm curious about your transition into college, and how your upbringing has affected your class choices and interactions with other students.
My transition from home schooled, "preparing to stay at home" young lady to college woman was long and very gradual. As I've said before, it took a few years to get my pre-reqs in place and educate myself enough in some areas in order to do well on standardized testing and placement exams. My class choices are dictated, mostly, be the university curriculum and what's available. Now that I'm as "caught up" as any freshman, and I'm just finishing my freshman year, (maybe I have enough credits for a sophmore but I'll be here at least three more years), my upbrining doesn't affect that.
what the ATI views on Judaism were, especially since it seems that there are aspects of the ATI life that draw heavily from Orthodox Judaism.
Short answer- Judaism is an older religion that Christianity so it was respected but now they'd say Jewish folks are "wrong" because they don't recognize Christ's salvation.
Do I let my mom off the hook?
In some ways I do. That may not be right from a standpoint of accountability and it seems to have sprung some debate in my comments section but the answer is complicated. I hold my mom responsible for some things: the decision to marry my father, originally, perhaps, or the decision to follow my dad into Gothardism. However, I feel for her like I feel sympathy for the guy who bought a crappy car because of a suave salesman. In my mom's case, she had a whole team of salesman working on her. By the time she started to see the choice she'd really made, she had small children and had been told that she had no where to go. My grandparents would have taken her back in at that point and helped her. But my dad and everyone near her was telling her she'd be leaving a righteous life and their protection. Some one brought up Vyckie at NLQ. Vyckie is insanely strong for being able to leave with her children and she paid a heavy price (financially, emotionally) for it. I cut my mom slack, whether it's right or not, because I can see how limited her perspective was.
If I seem to let her slide in accountability, it's because I still identify with her - I almost became her. My therapist says that we tend to cut our "safe parent" more slack because we identify with them most. When we start to criticize them, we're getting close to criticizing ourselves. I guess I'm not there yet. If I have to criticize her, then I have to examine my part in perpetuating the abuses I saw around me. I doled out some swats to the butt and followed my father's house rules, even after I was at an age to know it was wrong.
I was going to ask if you would ever speak out even more vocally and publicly than this [very brave] blog, but Anonymous already suggested it. Do you think you would ever pursue bringing this to national attention?
Would I EVER? Yes, probably. Is that going to be anytime soon? I think the blog will be it for now. I *need* my anonymity for several reasons right now. Giving my information to Vyckie caused a panic attack of epic proportions. I can't imagine doing more right now. When Rani is out of the house and safe and Blessing is older or my father dies, then I'll feel better about it.
First Question: Do you now consider your upbringing to be a cult?
Yes.
Second Question: Where you the first to leave and if not, who left first and how are they dealing with life now and are you close?
I won't divulge my siblings stories out of respect. It's their story to tell, not mine. I wasn't the first to have doubts, if that's what you're asking. An older brother followed the path before him and found it to be the wrong path for he and his family. I am very close to them and getting closer every day.
1. How IS the leg??? ;-)
2. What are your plans for the summer? Will you take classes or work or both?
3. Is it safe to tell us what year of study you're in, or does that need to remain confidential? (Completely understand if it does.)
4. Does Harris know about your blog, and if he does, does he read it?
5. Speaking of reading, what books have you been enjoying lately?
1. Healing! I'm still on crutches (my armpits hurt like you know what). I don't have any pain unless my clumsy self bangs it on something. No need for pain meds of any kind anymore. It's just inconvenient now.
2. My summer plans were hampered by my leg. I was going to get a job and do some hiking. I don't know how that will work now. The cast will be off around May 10th. I may nanny for a family in town in exchange for room and food. I'll still need to find some spending money income. I was going to take summer school but budget cuts at the state level blew that when my class was cancelled.
3. I'm a frosh. I consider myself a freshman, but I think I have enough credits to be an early sophomore.
4. Harris knows about my blog. He doesn't read it every day or comment.
5. I haven't pleasure read in a while. Too much school reading to be done. :) I started one of the Twilight books and I like it so far.
Monday, April 12, 2010
FAQ
I'm taking a series break to let NLQ catch up. Speaking of that, everyone please pray (if you pray) and think of (if you want to) for Vyckie's daughter Angel. She's had a rough week and could probably use the support. Vyckie, too!
Since I'm taking a series break, this would be the time or place to ask any questions you have.
Since I'm taking a series break, this would be the time or place to ask any questions you have.
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