Sunday, May 23, 2010

No title

I have a spare moment before I go back to my study-coma.

I have received e-mails asking me what I think the Duggar bombshell will be. I suspect that they're going to take a hiatus for the summer and get Josie's weight up and get her home with home health care. I have heard that she can't withstand the surgeries/anasthesia she needs until she puts on some weight so I would guess the goal is to get her to bulk up a little. While they're doing this, they probably will be tied to the house more than makes interesting television. I predict that the show will start back up when the drama from Josie's surgery commences and JD and Jana get back from the missionary service in Asia. I also suspect that there's a number 20 on the way, but I don't want to say why yet.

My life has been crazy. I really enjoyed spending time with my brother...and my sister (she's 17). Yes, that's right for those who paid attention...once of my sisters left my dad's house and flew out here with my brother to be placed in a safe house. This only leaves Rani and Blessing to worry about (at most). While I'm happy about that, I'm nervous about how dad will react to all of this change in his life.

My sister left with nothing and needs clothes and food. If any of my generous donors would be willing to contribute to getting her started in life and registered in school, I will serve as the go between for ideas.

I got my cast off and start physical therapy this week. My leg is clammy and yuck.

The boys I will be nannying for are great kids. I look forward to spending time with them. Anything else I can answer?

115 comments:

  1. will your sister be living with you? So glad to hear she's broken free!

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  2. interesting thoughts concerning the duggars. I wonder and hope which of the duggar girls may have the bravery that you had to leave their family, or a at least pursue something like college other than stay at home 'til they are married. I feel like Jinger and Jessa seem to have more spunk than Jill and Jana.

    Hope you enjoy your summer and enjoy time with your sister. She's lucky to have you go ahead of her in this new and difficult situation she must be facing.

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  3. She needs to start by trying to get a community college to put her on some kind of scholarship/federal grant to take her gen ed classes/ maybe get an Associates degree (which is way cheaper than a 4 year school). Then she can probably easily find a scholarship to a major university that will give her credit for the Associates. The CC will at least be able to tell her where to go to get some kind of scholarship assistance if they can't provide any.

    If she isn't turning 18 soon, she will probably have to be legally emancipated from your parents before she can attend school. Otherwise they have to sign stuff for her. Does she have any documents like social security card and birth certificate? Without them this all might be hard.

    Good luck to her! You both are so brave and I hope your leg continues to heal!

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  4. Sorry to double post but I thought of something else. You could probably have her open up a PO box where ever shes at to have people donate clothes to her. That way people wont know exactly where shes at, but can still get stuff to her.

    Take care!

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  5. I thought you had 4 sisters total (yes, counting blessing)..so isn't that 3 (not 2) to still worry about?

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  6. According to this (public) post after you add Blessing, you do have 4 sisters..

    Do QF families name their kids all the same letter most of the time? What is the age spread in your family?

    Us girls all start with "R". My parents were a little more creative than the Duggars. We are, in birth order (nicknames); Eli, Sam, Joe-Jay, Ruth, Caleb, Matt, Luke, Becca, Rachel, and Rani. There's 16 years between Eli and Rani. She's turning 13 in two weeks.

    Sorry, not trying to pick on you just trying to account for the "lost girl."

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  7. what size does your sister wear? i need to go through my closet :)

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  8. Isn't Becca engaged and going to be married soon. Maybe that's what Ruth meant by the "at most" comment - Becca will be gone soon anyway.

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  9. Congrats to your sister! She will need a lot of love and support. I pray that the "safe house" will be just that in every way!

    The most important thing to start with is her personal legal documents.

    She can start with getting a copy of her birth certificate from the state in which she was born, then a copy of her social security card. This usually involves checking the SS web site, gathering what she needs and a lot of prayer and footwork after that.

    It can feel impossible, but it's not. It's just complicated.

    You need the birth certificate to get the SS card, so start there. I think all you need for that is your birth date/place, parent's names and sign a statement that you are who you claim to be. Plus there is always a fee to send in, but not too high- less than $20.

    You can't get a copy of your social without the birth certificate.

    You may also need a bill in your sisters name to establish residency for enrolling in school later. If the people at the safe house are willing, they can find a sample lease online and have her sign it. (We did this charging $30 a week on paper, but agreed privately for chores in lieu of money.) That will work for establishing residency. You can lease for any amount, even one dollar a month if you want. There's no rules about that, but a legally binding lease/rental agreement or a utility in your name is usually required to prove residency.

    For most students, a school report card/enrollment letter is also good for establishing residency. I don't know how that will work for your sister, if she can't enroll until she turns eighteen.

    On the other hand, a sympathetic community college high school diploma counselor has heard it all. They may enroll her anyway, without her parent's signature. Your sister is not the first seventeen year old in the world to be totally unsupported by her parents in trying to make it in the world. Unfortunately.

    Emancipation is a long, drawn out legal process that is not as easy as it looks. You have to prove to a judge that you are self-supporting and able to keep up with your school work. She would probably be eighteen before that even came to court.

    Imho, your sister is best off laying low until she turns eighteen, though she absolutely must get the birth certificate and social security card as soon as she can. She will need those documents the rest of her life.

    Also, I have been told that most social workers, if they are called to look into your sister's welfare, will NOT take a seventeen year old "runaway" into custody if that teen turn out to be happy, safe and well provided for where they are. It didn't work that way for me, but especially in your sisters situation, I think social services would leave her in her safe place, especially if she opens up about the total male domination and religious extremism.

    It's a lot to take in. Your little sister is going to need so much love and support, in every way. Know she is in my prayers. As one who was on her own with nothing at a similar age, I can totally sympathize.

    At least she has siblings who care, and that is HUGE! Never underestimate the power of your support to her, and please don't ever withhold your support, even if she occasionally cracks under the pressure and is a pain.

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  10. Uh Ruth, I don't want to be too much negative, but I think that if your underage sister escaped there's a case to call social services. You can't just take responsibility about the other in your dad household from this far and all. Anyways, if you look for women shelter in your area they'll give you a lot of ideas and help IMO.

    Good luck to you.

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  11. For clothes: Goodwill is an excellent store that people donate to in order to help. You may want to look them up in your area. Also it would help if you posted your sisters clothing size so your readers could think about sending our old stuff.

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  12. Also a thought: why not call the Domestic Violence Hotline? At the very least they will be able to point you to charities in your area that can help. People fleeing abusive homes need help, temporary shelters, etc.

    Why not call them, explain the entire situation, and ask for help and see what they say. It is 100% confidential. Please call.

    National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE(7233)

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  13. Rebekka - The other sister married recently. She's over 18 I think.

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  14. I just graduated college and have quite a few things I was going to donate to Goodwill, but I can send them to your sister instead :) Is there a way I could get her address?

    Tell her we are all wishing her the best of luck!!!

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  15. "Anonymous said...
    Rebekka - The other sister married recently. She's over 18 I think."

    I thought it was a brother that got married. Did a sister get married too, and I missed it? Weird, b/c I read this blog faithfully.

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  16. When are your finals? You have been studying for them for weeks now. Aren't most colleges out for the summer already. Mine closed the first week in May.

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  17. Ruth, what size does your sister wear? I have tons of clothes I'd be happy to donate, if they'd fit her.

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  18. I mean this in a very, very supportive way--I am praying for your sister as she transitions to normal life. I'm a Christian, but don't support Gothard at all. I'm glad she is "free"

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  19. I knew several people who became emancipated minors at 17, when I was a teenager. I think the level of complication may depend in part on the state. The advantage of filing for emancipation is that she'd be able to apply for financial aid to college without her parents having to provide tax forms or other information.

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  20. I wish your sister all the best! As for the Duggar's, I fear if she is pregnant again, especially so soon and with a critically ill child who nneds so much care and attention, there will be a public backlash the likes opf which they have never seen. I hope for Josie's sake, you are wrong.

    Pam

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  21. Hello,
    I would like to get you more information for your sister....she could be considered homeless under the McKinney Vento Act. She would also be able to complete FASFA forms based on her own financial situation.
    Every state (and every school district) has homeless liaisons (it is a federal law)....contact a school district near your sister and ask to speak to the "McKinney Vento homeless liaison"

    A student is considered homeless up to the age of 21.

    http://www.seirtec.org/nche/m-v.php

    http://homelessed.net/resource/F%20A%20Q%20FY%202010.pdf

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  22. With the Mckinney Vento Act, your sister would not be required to show proof of residency. Also, the liaison in your area would be able to help with obtaining documentation, such as birth cert. SS, etc.

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  23. Rebekka,
    In February. http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
    Ruth said one of the SAH-Sisters was courting/engaged. That's probably the one who got married.

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  24. MJB here. Ruth, best wishes for your sister. Be very cautious with the best-intentioned e-friends who offer help; I don't doubt eveerybody responding here is on the up-and-up, but ... there are so many resources physically where you are, and it will be better for the time being to rely upon them without giving anybody your location or address even on PMs or e-mails. The Domestic Violence hotline is a great place to start, as are the school counselors, who can direct you both to social work agencies that can be of help.

    My fervent prayers for all your futures!!

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  25. When does she turn 18? Because depending on which state she lives in, she can get independent living (a studio apartment, help with rent furniture, and finding a job) for kids who have spent a certain amount of time in foster care. I wouldn't recommend this though, because social services would have to get involved, and she would have to report all/any abuse that occurred. This would piss off your father even more. Is there anyway you can move into an apartment and split the rent with your sister, once she finds a job? I think it would be hard for her to get financial aid at this point, because the parents tax return is needed if she is under 24. I guess the best option would be for her to find a job and start saving while she is in the safe house. When her time limit is up there, hopefully she will have found a roomate (roomates.com) or a cheap place to stay. I would also reccomend she take classes or obtain study guides (libary) for the GED.

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  26. Naomi said...

    "I knew several people who became emancipated minors at 17, when I was a teenager. I think the level of complication may depend in part on the state. The advantage of filing for emancipation is that she'd be able to apply for financial aid to college without her parents having to provide tax forms or other information."

    Actually this sounds best. That way, she can go to school for free, and maybe stay in the dorms with the help of financial aid and a part-time job.

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  27. Ok, thanks for the info, guys. I had thought Becca's engagement had been broken, but that must have been the other sister. That's why I was confused.

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  29. I have worked with girls/boys who have left pologamy for many years. The one benefit to all the negative attention pologamists have gotten is that neighboring states/cities have resourses for getting started, like finding a place to stay and getting basic necesities.

    Alot of the young women use their talents in cratfs or sewing to make extra money while getting an education. I have seen some of the cutest custom outfits and paper cuttings sold on ebay by the girls. They also sell at local shops. Maybe your sister could do something like this?

    There are many churches or orgnaizations that help reguardless of religion. I had a friend stuck at an airport 2000 miles from home, without money, missed her flight and the sirline would not help her. The catholic church that ran a local mission helped her with a travel voucher and she was not catholic. The salavtion army also helps, in our city the give out vouchers for food, gas, lodging for people who are stuck.

    I would like, as well as former pologamists women I know who like the help anyone reguardless or what religion is the "issue" to help but I know it is hard to get items without giving away your location.

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  30. I agree with those who have suggested contacting the Domestic Violence Hotline. They will be able to point you toward services in your area and, most importantly, are 100% confidential. Please do not post your location online, there are just too many wackos out there.

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  31. Hi Ruth, glad that you are all doing well. Interesting turn of events (I'll get to all that in a minute). Regarding the Duggars and "interesting television", they haven't put that out in years. It's now become some sort of out-of-control train wreck/freak show as they've become clearly delusional. The older girls are doing ALL of the work that the parents should be doing, they are, in all effect, the sister-moms - period. Jim Bob and Michelle are the sperm/egg donors, Michelle is the incubator for the new baby and then pawns her/him off at 6 months in order to address her baby fix. Their "field trips" are ridiculous as she and Jim-Bob go up ahead, holding hands, acting like two teen-age love-birds with not a care in the world, while the whole mess is unfolding behind them with the girls pushing strollers, carrying diaper bags, dealing with the small children. They are oblivious to that. TLC keeps putting out the message that that is "normal" and something we should all strive for. They sicken me.

    Who know what the "bombshell" will be. If it's the announcement that #20 is on the way, they can seriously buzz off. I've actually known people with this many children or even more, and none of them are like JB and M Duggar. Their presention of "a huge family" is waaay off base. I think this is the most politically-correct way I can put it.

    I'm absolutely thrilled that your sister got out too. Please tell her - CONGRATULATIONS!!! I am not delusional enough to think that it's going to be an easy road to put her life in order, but she got out in time BEFORE her life's path was chosen for her by your dad. I won't even get into the fact that I also hold your mom accountable for this (putting her own daughers into some sort of "religious" slavery), because it's not important. What's important and relevant is that your sister got out. I think that the posters above have already given excellent advice as far as what your sister can do as far as resources, her future education, emancipation, etc. Any social worker, attorney, judge, that reads this blog will know what is going on more than anything else. It's unbelievable that the U.S. needs some sort of "underground railroad" to get these young kids out of the trenches and slavery that ATI/Bill Gothard has set up. Unbelievable that we have this sort of thing going on in the U.S. in 2010, about 150 years after slavery was abolished. Has your dad ever heard of the "Emancipation Proclamation"? He gives himself "rights" as the lord and overseer. I hope he takes his umbrella of protection and sticks it where the sun doesn't shine.

    Best wishes to all of you, especially your sister. Like I said, let the authorities read your blog. After that, they will definitely know what is going on. As many of us have said before, this sort of thing needs to be exposed on national TV, the fact that we have the Taliban right here in our own country - the Christian fundamentalist Taliban.

    Take care - all of you. :)

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  32. Also, Ruth, I forgot to address the issue of "how your dad will act about this change in his life." He most likely will react the same way as he always has, like that of a brain-washed ATI/Bill Gothard devotee/Daddy Darth. He is right, you are wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it (from the movie, "Matilda.") Except in this case, you (and your siblings) CAN do something about it. The biggest thing to break is the mental control he has on you. Once that is broken, the rest becomes easier...not easy...but easier. Breaking those mental shackles he has imposed on all of you since you were babies is the key to it all.

    Here's the bottom line, Ruth and siblings: keep your wits about you and make your moves prudently. He might try to trip you up, so seriously, watch what you do, say, about divulging personal information like location, names, etc. I look upon all of you as my own children (I have a large family myself). I know that many of us relate to all of you as our children or siblings (as there appear to be other younger people who grew up in similiar situations as you). Best wishes. Keep your heads up; you are doing the right thing. No one has the right to turn you into a slave; you are a free human being with your own mind and wills.

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  33. Ruth,
    I have some jeans she could have, depending on her height/weight. I know this might sound silly, but would she wear jeans? You can email me.

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  34. well, I'm sure you've heard of the NLQ-endorsed Take Heart Project. maybe you should point your sister in their direction? of course the Goodwill Store, they're there to help those in need, and have not just clothes and shoes but also home-goods and even luggage. someone mentioned domestic-violence helplines which could lead her towards those best equipped to help her. good luck, and break a leg (or not).

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  35. To the poster who inquired about Ruth's school year: several schools start a little later and end the Friday before Memorial Day, or have longer semesters (my old CC started right after MLK day and their finals end Friday. My finals ended two weeks ago, including the dead week, that they don't have. It just depends on the school and smaller schools often have different schedules than bigger, public universities (Spring Breaks vary widely as well). Give Ruth a break on this; in our state, we start later and end later. I whined about late finals last year and also whined about them ending 3 days before Christmas at the CC; I had a 10 day cushion before Christmas last fall. That's the way it works.

    Hope all is going (or has gone well) on finals! I just started summer school today. Bleh. :D

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  36. since it's the end of t he school year, Just put some boxes around your dorm asking for donations. Everytime I moved out of a dorm I always had extra clothes I didn't want anymore. I would donate them to goodwill, but j know that if someone had put a box that said "clothing donations" in my hall, I would have filled it up! You could add a note that it is for a good cause and chose what you want to share about your sister, but you don't have to. Trust me, people will donate!

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  37. It's interesting that for the second time the Duggars have announced something and then no-showed. I think that maybe the announcements were supposed to be Josie coming home, but her release was postponed both times.

    I hope your leg continues to heal well. I just had a cast off for a broken hand a week ago and it's such a relief to not be stuck under that gross plaster.

    I also wanted to say thanks for your soup recipe - I made it tonight and it was fantastic, not to mention very budget-friendly (I'm a broke uni student myself).

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  38. Im so proud of your sister. The only problem here is her age. She is still considered a juvenile in the laws and may need a temporary guardian. I agree with Sophie and others about women shelters and Domestic Abuse Hotline.You can also report abuse at your local human services . When you call human services, they usually give you a national line to report neglect an abuse. If you are concerned with your other siblings, a social worker can drop in on them and make an assessment. Abuse can happen in any walk of life Christian or not. I applaud any one who escapes.
    Duggar supporters can not take off their rose colored glasses. It amazes me most arent relegious at all. I think the annoucements maybe for the hype.

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  39. This was said by someone before, but I want to repeat it. Don't give out any address or P.O.Box number. People can still wait for you at a P.O.Box. I know most of these people are super good hearted, but it only takes one.Your Dad, for instance. Let people donate money some other way. I am really concerned for both of you. I think you've learned a lot, but you are so obviously kind and innocent. People prey on that. Be careful.

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  40. Echo the sentiments about being wary of every offer, unless you have factually established the person to be legit. Even a restraining order won't stop a nutbag at an empty PO Box station if he has a gun and is a decent shot from 100 feet away. I'm also concerned that someone in your family (on your side) could inadvertently be coerced into your summer location, your little sister being the most vulnerable and likely target of Daddy Dearest. Paypal donations with a note about how you want the money to be used is probably the best bet in terms of Ruth's safety.

    I agree, she needs to emancipate herself lickety split; what with all the work she's done to help support your family, she has marketable skills as an au-pair as she studies to catch herself up to the point where she can take her SAT's, if that's the route she wants to go.

    Given the disparity of children remaining vs. those who have stayed, it is clear that the family dynamic here is toxic beyond anything out there in the Gulf. I wish you and your recovering family members all the best.

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  41. A nearby school has a rummage sale at the end of each school year, with the proceeds going to charity. All kinds of things are for sale: mini fridges, microwave ovens, bookshelves, furniture. It's huge! You might be able to score some free stuff from graduating seniors who don't feel like lugging everything back home. Ask around!

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  42. I recently discovered you blog and think it's interesting to read your perspective.

    However, it seems you haven't let go of the ever so common practice of fundies to always have your hand out for money.

    The world doesn't owe you anything, and you'd be far more plausible if you'd remove the donation request at the top of the page. It does rub some people the wrong way.

    I wish you happiness and luck in moving forward with your life.

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  43. I would caution everyone when reading this site and others like it. Having been raised in this same movement... and rejected it in my young adulthood, I can tell you that much of what I have read in this blog is false.

    Our family was not only active in this movement, but in a very prominent role. Some continue to be today. I find it a little difficult to believe that "Ruth" is who she says she is and I wouldn't know her or her family.

    I did not have to "escape". I made a choice to leave and it grieved my family, but they understand. Many of them have also left since that time. I have known several who have left this movement and all did so with families who were sad, but loving. There are abusers in all walks of life. It disturbs me that this blog makes it sound as if the only real abusers must be homeschooling, religious fanatics.

    It is easy to read these kinds of stories and become inflamed. Please be cautious before you give handouts to someone asking for money and other items through a blog. There are SO many programs out there for young people like "Ruth" that this whole thing just doesn't ring true for me.

    In fact, anyone in Gothards group is very aware of some of the groups that are there to not only help young people leave, but enourages it greatly.

    I am sure "Ruth" will answer this comment by giving you some imaginable reason for why she must be telling the truth, but please be cautious.

    All of you will have to follow your own conscience.

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  44. Interesting that the above post by :"Anonymous" is just that...ANONYMOUS...me thinks it's a troll of an ATI kind. Any wonder why many evangelicals are calling Gothard's ATI a modern day Christian cult?????
    Take good care Ruth and watch your back,
    (((hugs)))
    Sue (notice how I am not afraid to leave my NAME???)

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  45. Ruth has put herself out here, requesting money and emotional support.

    I think the anonymous questions are quite valid, and hope she addresses these points.

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  46. Hey anonymous - we know that already, and it's been hashed over a million times in other places that you clearly don't know about. Everybody already knows that you can never be "quite" sure about people on the internet, so you take your chances. People asked her to put the "tip jar" up because they enjoy what she had to say, and want to donate $ regardless.

    You sound an awful lot like somebody who doesn't WANT to see this particular person helped out in any way. You know, maybe like a family member who couldn't take it that people are helping out two people who left a cult, etc. Hmmmmm ....

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  47. That 'be careful what you read' vibe generally comes from one place: someone who has a vested interest in protecting what is being exposed. Not someone who's calmly walked away and has a different story to tell. If anonymous really was a former Gothardite who managed to walk away without losing everything, the above comment would probably look a lot more like 'I'm sorry that this happened to you. My experience was less extreme, but this is why I left.' If it wasn't so bad, maybe you could rebut a few of Ruth's points. Please do explain why you left, if the movement wasn't abusive. Moreover, you do not have the right to silence Ruth or her family in their effort to escape by saying that YOU didn't have to escape. Guess what. Ruth did. I did. Several other people over at NLQ did. Many of us left behind all of our friends and family. How dare you assert that your peaceful little decision is representative of the social pressures of the Gothard/QF/Christian patriarchal movement? Tell your own story, then see how it stacks up against the rest of the evidence.

    Until then, you're a troll.

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  48. I have no time for people who anonymously. Quite frankly, they make me suspicious.

    Take care, Ruth and Ruth's sister.

    Jean

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  49. Ruth has a bit of trouble with the truth.

    No therapist would encourgage her to start a blog that focuses on her whiny complaints. If this was suggested by anyone, other than Ruth, that person would be risking their license for putting a patient in emotional jeoprady.

    Ruth, please address the blackmailing of your father, the issues of the problems you caused and continue to cause in your family.

    Speak the truth, and stop preying on the naive to add additional income to what you've been extorting.

    Thank you.

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  50. Yeah, anon is totally a family friend or family member that obviously knows her and is working for daddy darth.

    You're an idiot, plain and simple and I hope people just ignore you because you don't deserve the attention.

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  51. Well now we all know you're a troll, did not leave ATI and are very much for it. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go tell Daddy Darth to leave Ruth alone.

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  52. BTW, I attend an Oregon community college, and our finals aren't until the week of June 7th. We still have one more week of classes. Not all colleges/universities have finals at the same time.

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  53. Colleges and Universities on the quarter system in my area of the country are not out until the middle of June....get a life ATI troll!

    Prayerfully yours Ruth,
    Sue

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  54. Ruth,

    Are you proud of youself?

    You have conned all these people into supporting you.

    If YOU don't post the truth, I have a feeling that those who were close to you will finally stand up and expose your lies and half-truths.

    Will you please explain the money you stole/ black-mailed your father for?

    You became worldly, but forgot that you're too ugly to even be acceptable by a man of your supposed of your cult.

    You're a loser.

    Go home to mommy and daddy.

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  55. I see lots of people complaing about the anonymous posts. Yet you post in the same manner.

    Can we see some names. please?

    Sincerly,

    Mary Stewart

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  56. I believe you, Ruth.

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  57. To anonymous poster: Why does it bother you so much that Ruth has a blog and that people CHOOSE to donate stuff to her? Say you're right- this is all just a big lie- why do you care? We read her blog because we choose to and some people chose to donate things/money to her- that's their choice. Even if in the end, it's all just a fictional or embellished story- what an interesting story. Calling her a loser and ugly shows that you have a dark soul. If you are believer of God then you would know better than to judge. We come here to listen to Ruth's story- not to read rude anonymous comments. Take your hatred elsewhere.

    Taylor

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  58. Ruth, I believe you. After all these years, I thought I had exaggerated in my mind, what went on when my family was heavily involved in this cult. This blog has mentioned little details that make me see now that there was no way I made that crap up. I can totally see a therapist recommending her blogging about this. I held this in for so, so many years, and just reading this blog has been so therapeutic for me, I can only imagine she will be miles ahead of the game years down the road, due to speaking about this, hearing others comments and reassurances. Of course the anonymous posters that are saying Ruth is lying are still involved with the cult. For example, I know that ATI/BG promote abuse toward women and children. But of course their followers are not going to call it "abuse." They'll explain away why it is scriptural, God's best, blah, blah, blah.

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  59. I agree with Taylor. Typically writers get paid - through their published works, book, speeches, etc. I really hope you do not take down the tip jar, Ruth. You are earning every dime in there. It goes without saying that no one would donate if they did not want to. I sense some desperation in some of these anonymous posters, desperate because someone, and a woman at that, has dared to leave the fold, and God-forbid, obtain an education and see there is more in this world than BG/ATI garbage.

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  60. wow. the anon who just couldn't resist throwing in the 'ugly' dig just tipped their hand in a major way.

    that is some small minded vindictiveness right there. :(

    and i do believe that ruth has already shared enough about the topics they raised (eg. the alleged blackmail for money) to set my mind at ease on that one.

    also, she has agonised enough over the whole 'tip jar' issue to show her intentions etc.

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  61. Hey Anonymous,

    What a laughable, pathetic, amateurish, classless and stupid attempt on your part to discredit Ruth's story. Very, very badly played. All you managed to accomplish is to shoot your own credibility in the ear and solidify my belief that she is telling the truth. I'm wondering if you're just a random troll because I have a hard time believing that Ruth's opposition could be this incompetent. If they are, then Ruth has it made.

    Ruth, you're a beautiful lady. I don't need to see a picture to know that. You've shared enough of your heart in your writing to make us say, "here's a lovely soul". You stay the course and remember what you're fighting for, okay? I'm saying a prayer for you prior to turning in for the evening that the Lord will allow you to experience the depth of His love for you. It may be hard to fathom that kind of love in the face of years of pseudo-religious BS and performance-based control but the God of heaven is bigger than all of that.

    Blessings,

    Jim K.

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  62. Darth's back! I wondered when he'd rear his head again.

    (Side-note: all of the people against anonymously posting are actually showing up as anonymous themselves. Is that a system glitch or just dumb?)

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  63. Verity -

    I've found that the "name/url" option works well.

    Jim K.

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  64. @Verity, yeah the title shows up as anonymous, but they all leave a name at the end of their posts to be referred to by. It seems like we only have one anonymous who is getting increasingly angry we aren't abandoning Ruth at the first phrase from his awesome authoritative head.

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  65. oh and btw anonymous... can you explain two things to me? About money, where the hell did Ruth's inheritance from her grandparents go and why is giving your daughter a bit of money so unheard of that you would only characterize it as blackmail or stealing? And two, why is breaking an engagement so morally horrible? It's an ENGAGEMENT not marriage, sure maybe some feelings are hurt, but seriously.

    Plz leave. Or answer those questions and leave. whichever.

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  66. If Ruth's father thought he lost some money I'd love to see his face if Ruth were to sue him. Talk about some payements.

    Anonymous, you're ridiculous. Wether you write down all the details about your version of the truth or you just shut up. no middle ground here.

    And no one assumes that abuse only goes in QF/P families. Actually other people come here and comment what their abuse where in other places. That's not an excuse to say there is abuse elsewhere. Obviously you think it's ok to have abuse and you even reproduce it here.

    Oh, and asking a 25 year-old to go back to her parents shows also how dimwitted you are.

    Hope never to read you again.

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  67. Wow that comment about no one wanting Ruth was the meanest, most vindictive, childish and ugly thing I have read in a long time.

    Those words indeed reveal a black and ugly heart, and an immature and frightened heart at that.

    Pity mixed with disgust, that's what I have to offer Anonymous.

    Ruth, you are beautiful. I can know this without ever having seen your face. I also know, without a doubt, that your beauty will grow in years to come, as telling the truth sets you free and love and acceptance continue to nurture you.

    I know that those evil words hurt you. You are human and there is no way such ugly words would not hurt. Also, if you have heard this message before in your family of origin, I am sure the damage is double. BUT...

    the love and acceptance you find outside of your family of origin is more powerful than the rejection and abuse you are leaving behind. Love never fails. May your life be filled with love all the days of your life. Peace and good will to you, Ruth! =)

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  68. To the mean-spirited "Anonymous" who is attacking Ruth, I am laughing at your statement: "If YOU don't post the truth, I have a feeling that those who were close to you will finally stand up and expose your lies and half-truths." I DO wish that Gothard's lies get exposed to the light and that people in America know what it's really like to live under the Christian Taliban we have here right in the U.S. I wish that ATI/Bill Gothard, as well as his loving devotees, the Duggars, as well as Ruth's dad gets explosed for the patriarchal, Dominionist American they wish to foist on ALL of us. They are not content in just living in their own hermetically-sealed world torturing their own families, no, they will not be satisifed until they can get to control ALL of America. So, yes, I DO wish that all of you liars are exposed. There is nothing to expose on Ruth other than to show who her father and family really is.

    As far as you calling Ruth ugly and saying that no one wants her, that is just plain stupid. I am 100% certain that Ruth is beautiful not only on the inside, but on the outside as well. You're just angry that she didn't waste all of that beauty and kind soul becoming a Christian fundie Stepford wife. You're just angry that she stood up to her oppressors and had enough guts to leave that disaster. Next will be the Duggar girls, especially, if Michelle Duggar is pregnant with #20. All of you ATI/Bill Gothard devotees need to leave the U.S. and go move to one of the countries that is run by religious law because I personally don't want you here messing with our country. Take your dominionism, reconstructionism, patriarchism and just - STUFF IT.

    Ruth, we love ya!

    Donna

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  69. Ruth, For what it is worth, I believe you. To the Troll, GO AWAY !

    Maria F York, SC

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  70. I'm tired of all these people saying 'a licensed therapist would never suggest a blog'!(not only here but at FJ, etc.) A few years back my therapist did the exact same thing and she was an MD, not just an MS. Sometimes its hard for people to articulate themselves for an hour once a week, and a blog is a great way for you and your therapist to find things that need work. A lot of therapists suggest journals too if you don't want to do a blog, so please anony, explain to me why this would be 'damaging to someone's emotional being'? Unless you have personal experience and know what your are talking about, BACK OFF the blog issue!

    The later comments though lead me to believe its daddy darth or one of his minions with the whole blackmail comment. Maybe if you had actually done what her grandparents had wished, Ruth wouldn't have had to get the law involved.

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  71. Ruth, dear please be honest with the kind people who who are blindly supporting your version of events.

    More importantly, be honest with yourself.

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  72. So first she's an "ugly" "loser", now suddenly she's "dear"?

    Be honest with yourself, your beliefs and ways of acting upon them are crap.

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  73. Dear "anonymous" troll,
    When your creepy ATI elevated Gothard to a god-like position instead of God himself, you became false prophets that Christians are warned about in the bible.

    I don't have a blog, so I don't know how to do this, but many blogs have a feature that allows the host of the blog to decide which comments can be posted...keeps the trolls away. Someone on here give Ruth this info. She needs it!

    ((hugs))...Sue

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  74. Anonymous, you're a real piece of work, aren't ya. I find it hard to believe that ALL of the people on here (who have their own stories of abuse)as well as on NLQ, and the other blogs are a bunch of liars. That is NOT possible, and highly unprobable. Your denial of what is going on/went on is getting to be infuriating. What is your problem? Are you Daddy Darth or one of his minions?

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  75. Also, it's "emotionally damaging to keep a blog", but it's just fine and dandy to eat liver and onions and dyed oatmeal for two weeks straight or be beaten to a pulp, or thrown in dark prayer closets, have bizarro world mind games foisted on you by dear Mom and Dad, etc. Yeah, I'm sure that keeping a blog is SO damaging. Even if it was damaging, which it is not, do you think that more damage could possibly be incurred in light of what Ruth and others like her grew up with? It's amazing that they are not all basket cases considering the years of abuse they've gone through. This speaks to the strength of the soul and spirit. That probably doesn't sit well with you ATI/BG control freaks who can't stand it when people actually use their God-given mind to think for themselves.

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  76. Replying to a few things by Anon May 29, 2010 12:34 PM:


    'Having been raised in this same movement... and rejected it in my young adulthood, I can tell you that much of what I have read in this blog is false.'

    How? It may not line up with your personal experience, but if you're going to call this specific account false, you'll need to supply some evidence.


    'I did not have to "escape". I made a choice to leave and it grieved my family, but they understand. Many of them have also left since that time. I have known several who have left this movement and all did so with families who were sad, but loving. There are abusers in all walks of life. It disturbs me that this blog makes it sound as if the only real abusers must be homeschooling, religious fanatics.'

    How so? Did Ruth ever say that there was no abuse in any non-Gothard way of life? This blog tells her personal story. If she'd escaped, say, Scientology, then she'd be writing about the abuse in that cult. I'm glad that you were able to leave without anyone using fear tactics against you, but your account isn't universal. As you say, there are abusers in all walks of life.


    'I am sure "Ruth" will answer this comment by giving you some imaginable reason for why she must be telling the truth, but please be cautious.'

    As a reader, I'm cautious about what everyone has to say, including you, and even more cautious when it looks like an unwarranted personal attack. It's okay to be skeptical – Ruth has said that herself.



    Ruth, some of these anonymous comments must be hurtful (and rather boringly predictable), but please don't let them distract you from being an excellent big sister. Keep that tip jar up for both of you, and do what you have to do for your own sanity. As for that one snipe about 'whiny complaints', you're the least whiny blogger I've ever read. You have some painful stuff to write about, but you write like someone who has her head on straight. (If you want examples of whiny complaints, scroll up and look for a few anons).

    Good luck with the studying!

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  77. Losers attract...losers.

    Ruth is not a pretty person on the inside or the outside. She was never attractive physically, and should have been happy that any man would marry her. The pathetic story about how her intended was mean to her, it's ridiculous.

    She has this peculiar following of other miss-fits who are probably as messed up as she is.

    If she would remove the tip jar and stop begging/hinting that the world "owes" her because of her supposed abuse, she would be on the road to stepping out of the victim mentality in which she wallows.

    Ruth, everyone wants you to be happy. I simply wish you would stop deluding yourself and others with your distorted tales of woe. You are not honoring anyone by spreading lies.

    By creating this blog you have hurt many people. You are a cruel and bitter woman. I hope you will be able to make peace with those who love you.

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  78. Ruth,

    I have read for a long time and never posted but I just wanted to tell you that I am so sorry you have been and continue to be so cruelly treated by your family. It is obvious that "anonymous"/Daddy Darth's only goal is salvaging what is left of his crumbling "vision" for his family and he can only justify his failures as a father by putting the blame on you for not towing the party line. I am so glad you are getting out and that you have supportive people in your life who want to see you succeed. You will do well in life because the truth sets you free. I have a little (very little) experience with the BG craziness as my dad is a fundamental Baptist pastor and seems to think BG was a "great man of God". We never were not in the movement or anything like that but I do know that it can be difficult to separate your view of God from your view of your parents. I am praying that God surrounds you with his unfailing love and that you have the support you need. And I just want to say that you have every right to support yourself with your writing, even if the subject is too hard for Daddy to handle.

    Liz

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  79. oops that should have been
    "we never were in the movement"...sorry! I can't proofread apparently.

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  80. Dear Anonymous,

    I think we, Ruth's blog's readers, have had enough with your attitude and posts. STFU already. You're speaking in very vague terms about so-called facts, although insults just abound.

    I personnally don't care about Ruth's appearance. I don't care because it's not relevant.

    Trying to insult someone saying he/she is ugly is pre-school level.

    You don't start from zero because you're ugly. You flee and start from zero in an unknown world because you find your life and sanity at risk.

    Stop posting here, no one wants to hear your insanities. Or strap on a pair and stop being anonymous and explain in details your POV. If you go on posting that's just plain bullying since you're convincing absolutely no one here.

    Stop bullying and get a life.

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  81. I actually don't think THIS anonymous is darth Daddy. I think THIS anonymous is the dumped asshole who's mad the only kind of woman who might ever marry him (one abused and brainwashed into it from childhood) STILL saw through him and escaped! :)

    You're pathetic, anonymous! And I think you should get a mirror because you are doing a LOT of projecting.

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  82. Anonymous, I can't begin to tell you what's wrong with saying that Ruth should be glad that any man would stoop to marrying her, and then calling *her* cruel and bitter.

    As for the peculiar following of misfits: if my personality is anything like Ruth's, I'm glad.

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  83. Someone PLEASE with bloggie knowledge share with Ruth how to screen her posters. Most blog comments have to be approved by the host before being posted. Sorry I'm being a ludite here folks, or I'd help! ;)
    As a Christian I am so appalled at ATI. They tried to rear their vain, prideful and scripturally unsound ways in the church I grew up in (unsuccessfully...thank goodness). The ATI trolls are showing their true and unlovely selves. Remember Ruth, the unfailing love of Jesus has NOTHING to do with ATI or Gothard...they have made them selves "god" and are in no way following His commandments.

    Hang in there and get some blog help to block these goons!
    Sue

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  84. Wow. After reading all of these posts, I am not surprised that people fall for the Gothard junk. If you would jump all over someone anonymous or not, just for posting their opinion. You all sound like Gothardites. Follow the leader.

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  85. Shocked at how many "christians" spout off about love, but lower themselves horribly when someone disagrees with them. Shame on all of you. Whether you are for or against the author of this site, don't claim Christ if you don't plan to follow his example of love. He sat down with the sinners, he didn't run them off by calling them names and degrading them and himself.

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  86. Anonymous, you sound bi-polar. First you tell Ruth that she's a loser, ugly, and a liar. Then you say that all will be fine if she just comes home.

    In any case, Ruth has the right to live her own life with or without your "approval." Take your umbrella of protection and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I seriously can't believe that we have this fundie cr*p going on in the U.S. So sad that BG's delusions have penetrated so many churches (and people) creating so many casualties. I can't even believe that you show up to support these creeps.

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  87. I am so sorry and sincerely apologize for some of the comments that have been posted.

    It was MY computer that was "hacked" and I won't attempt to excuse anyone's behavior. I can understand (and so can you) why people are upset with you. But that's no excuse. It is wrong to post unkind and hurtful remarks, I will do my very best to assure that it doesn't happen again.

    Ruth, please take care of yourself and know that there are many people (some of us are afraid to publicly come forth) who love and believe in you.

    The comments regarding your physical appearance really upset me. God does not care about such worldly things. He made you beautiful on the inside, and that's what counts.

    Bless you, and be strong.

    You're in my prayers...

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  88. LOL! I think you are on to something jemand!

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  89. Ruth,

    I hope you're okay. Take the mean-spitited comments with a grain of salt and be grateful you have some wonderful friends to help you.

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  90. Trolling has NOTHING to do with a persons "opinion"...it is baiting to get reactions of all kinds. The ANONYMOUS poster who has been continually at work here in many different voices trying to pass as several different people (some harsh, some attempt at loving) are all the same Troll (btw..."troll" is not slanderous, mean or unchristian: it is a blog term for what is going on here). This is nothing new on blogs, but most blog hosts can delete or filter. You are fooling no one ANONYMOUS...least of all God.
    -Sue

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  91. I believe that Ruth has commented that she does not have the time to moderate the comments. Really the only options you have on blogger are to moderate all comments or restrict who can comment. It might be worth it for her to consider restricting comments to registered users.

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  92. Even ugly people need love too. Go away anonymous. You are truly an ugly person both inside and out. I agree with the poster who suggested you must be the ditched Ex. I can't imagine why she didn't want to marry some one so rancid inside. I bet you have a small little piece of manhood (trying to be PC here for the more religious on the board). I bet the only way you feel like a man is by berating women.

    Get a life. Ruth has decided on a different path. The more you breed, the more children will decide to follow her path.

    I kind of like seeing your kind of crazy on the board. It makes your movement look like the true freaks you are.

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  93. Don't try and screen out the trolls. Let them post, and the respond. Keep it out in the open and the truth will set us all free...

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  94. Have you read this analysis of Gothard's teaching? http://www.midwestoutreach.org/02-Information/02-OnlineReference/04-Etc/01-TheJournal/Volume3/No4-BillGothardsEvangelicalTalmudPt1.html

    As a former Gothardite, who's thankfully emancipated now, I found it very intriguing. My prayers are with you and your siblings--god luck on finals, if they're not over yet.

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  95. The moon has been full: that is my only explaination...Ruth you are a dear ignore these moron's

    Now....

    Dear Anonymouses, Darth Pater, Ruth's Crazy Ex:

    I am not a refugee of Gothardism. However, I am a refugee of Historic/Reformed Seventh Day Adventism. And other than your umbrella of protection there is no difference between my ex faith and Gothardism...right down to the prairie muffin dresses, long sleeves and cotton tights..even in summer...and the damned health food bosch mixer crap. After careful comparison, my conclusion is same shit different cults of personality. Thankfully I left my church, my husband with my kids, cats and dog. I'm to this day grateful I got out before my children were damaged by the patriarchal, overcontrolling, homeschooling dogma.

    These days I live with the love of my life Elle. My hair is so short it would make a drill seargant proud (hers is too!), and I own one skirt (broomstick of course) which I recently wore to my second child's High School Graduation. My two youngest daughers will graduate in 2012. I'm proud to say Elle and I've raised four uppity women who have a good sense of self and take crap from no one...no man ever. I'm also a member of that subservsive organization...The American Library Association..

    Now on to my run ins with ATI....

    In 2002 Jim Bob Duggar ran for the Adulterous Tim Hutchinson's senate seat. Ole' Jim Bob...who had 13 or so kids at the time definitely needed a housing upgrade. Instead of providing an appropriate dwelling for his family, he used $100,000 of his own money to self fund his own campaign...Abusive? I think so.

    In 2004, I did not vote for Jim Holt? Why you ask? He sold my husband our first dwelling...the property had unpaid property taxes that we were responsible for under 1988 law....I dunno if he was involved in ATI at the time, but sticking someone like that was sure not Christ Like.

    In 2010 I gleefully voted against both Jim Holt and Kurt Maddox in the recent Primary Why didn't vote for Kurt Maddox? Well, not only is he a Gothardite, 20 plus years ago he totaled my sister in laws nice sporty Honda Sedan.

    So you see,

    So dear Anonymouses, Darth Pater, Ruth's Crazy Ex it wasn't Ruth's blog that swayed my votes were not swayed one iota by Ruth's blog...it's a great blog. I hope she unmasks you one day....the sooner the better...

    Hugs and Kisses

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  96. Well rats...I gave hugs and kisses too soon....

    Kurt Maddox didn't pay restitution for the wrecked car. His father was a preacher. He should have known better being raised in the word.

    I will forever after take exceedingly great pleasure in ferreting out ATI/ C Street and Vision Forum candidates and doing my best to make sure they don't get past the primary stage of any elective cycle.

    I see it as my duty to protect my daughters (and those daughers whose parents have absolutely no common sense.) rights to full human rights with access to full control of their own lives.

    There is no umbrella of protection...Except maybe Hagrid's magic umbrella in the Harry Potter books.

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  97. I don't get the whole "My computer was hacked" comment. What are they trying to say? The troll went through their computer? Please don't find this question dumb- just having a blonde moment I guess haha.

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  98. To Anonymous above me: I don't understand it, either. Can anyone explain? I am having a blonde moment, too. :p

    Ruth, sorry you have a psychopath (or more than one...I can't tell) posting on your blog. Ignore him/her--whoever it is is obviously mentally ill. I agree with Jemand (did I get the name right?) that it sounds like this might possibly be the ditched betrothed. Boy, did you dodge a bullet if that's the case, Ruth!

    I have a question, too--I find it very immature and horrible, really, that this troll of yours is so focused on physical appearance. Is there a big focus on women's beauty in Gothard followers? I don't think I've ever seen a young woman who wasn't pretty in some way, anyway. Harris obviously thinks you're pretty cute! :o)

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  99. I just wanted to post the 100th comment... :)

    Carry on!

    Jim K.

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  100. Dang Jim....I wanted that honor...lol ;)

    Hope you had a great Memorial. As I have said before...I'm a Christian and I just got back from a family M-Day party with other Christians where we had Mexican food, lite beer, rockin' music and swimming in (gasp!!) two piece bathing suits. All in family fun, moderation and celebration (ya...there are real people out there that live like this and love God...)
    Here's comment 101...Sue

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  101. The computer said jackass was originally posting from is probably blocked. Said jackass possibly visited a friend and posted from there?

    smf

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  102. it doesnt matter if she is for real or not

    if she is not for real she is a dang good writer adn story teller and deserves tips for being so good at it and should write a book

    if she is for real people arnt giving her money becouse they feel sorry for her but becouse she is good at writing adn becouse they want to help her in any way they can...and she should still write a book

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  103. I agree. Lemmings.

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  104. What's with anonymity and crap grammar?

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  105. Ruth,

    From my experience with leaving, I would say that the above comments are a sad type of confirmation that you have made the correct decision to get on with your life! You can never change their perspective that your "place" is to be berated and kept under someone's thumb. It is their intention to have to you think THEIR thoughts and when you have your own, they call you names and tell you to "go home" as if you are a lost puppy. While obviously it is hurtful on many levels, it just confirms that they are choosing to refuse love and support of you unless it is on their CONDITIONS. They only want a puppet that says "yes" and not the real true Ruth which is fully in your control as an adult.

    Take care my friend(s) - your bro and sis included!
    x-ATI pilot daughter

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  106. mine, about writing a book was meant as a compliment...she is a good writer in any instance

    i believe she is real but it is the internet so thier is always that chance

    and i personaly know i have horrrible grammer, i guess i could do better im just lazy

    anon becouse i can be

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  107. Just popped on the site to see if there were more comments and WOW! HATE BONANZA!!! The vitriol being spewed by Anonymous and Crew is nothing but further proof to me that Ruth would have been crazy NOT to leave. I have no idea what you people think you're accomplishing here but if it's to convince us to think less of Ruth and more highly of Gothardism & ATI, you're failing miserably.

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  108. What "Anonymous" and minions are accomplishing is showing to the world what a-holes they truly are (as if we didn't know already). Truthfully, they are AFRAID - very, very afraid. They are afraid of more people going the way of Ruth, her brother, and now, sister. All it takes is for one domino to fall and the whole stack follows. Ruth has now effectively demonstrated to her whole community of ATI believers that she CAN make it on her own without their blasted "umbrella of protection " and live her own life, independently without them telling her what to think, what to do, who to marry, etc. Now that she has done it, and her brother, and her sister, it's guaranteed that others within the community of "believers" want the same. Who in the hello wants to be held down by others with a bunch of legalistic laws and mumbo jumbo on how to do this, that, etc.? The problem is that the Pandora's box has been opened and there is no closing it now. Sure, the old-timers are going to stay (and some of them might want to leave too), but their vested interest is in the young, especially, the young girls who they treat as chattle, who are nothing more than breeding machines who are supposed to pump out more "Christian warriors." They don't want that inventory dwindling down. Plus, the fathers get to stroke their egos (and probably their little wee wees too) when they marry off their daughter to some ATI creep, just as their mentor, Bill Gothard, wanted them to. Yuck.

    So here's the deal, Ruth: you did a good thing, a very, very good thing by extricating yourself from these weirdos.

    To "Anonymous" and minions, you are merely showing yourselves for the jerks you are. Go off to the barn and have a nice circle ____.

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  109. Um...Ruth. Ignore the haters. The forum you have given them the unmasks them completely. Like a previous poster, I will work to find out which candidates are Gothardites, Wall Builders, Vision Forum, C Street etc. And make sure I vote against them. They may use the same Bible that I do...but my loving God is not theirs obviously. May he have mercy on them...and may God richly bless you and your siblings who have broken away.

    L

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  110. Sam, I, too was part of the SDA religion and got out over 25 years ago. I literally had to flee and move to the West Coast, over 2000 away. It's taken me years to shake off what I was raised with. I won't get into all of it, just wanted to tell you that I know what you're talking about.

    Thank you also for the "insider" information on the various political candidates who have ties to BG. They are certainly working overtime trying to present themselves as "traditional, family values" Americans. I do hope that people don't get taken in by these snake oil salesmen; that is certainly what they are.

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  111. WOW!!! So, you're calling Ruth a "Loser" and then saying everyone wants her to be happy???!!! If you really loved her, you wouldn't be posting these hurtful comments.

    Re: the comment, "You are not honoring anyone by spreading lies," I believe Ruth is honoring herself by telling her story. And she doesn't have an obligation to honor anyone besides herself.

    Keep on posting, Ruth, and doing whatever you need to do! We believe in you!!!

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  112. I'm not letting anonymous bother me. I've only read his/her posts today. Studying and packing up has taken most of my time. Thank you for the support.

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  113. *You are a cruel and bitter woman.*

    A wonderful "pot/kettle" moment.

    Ruth, trust me when I say, when the frienemies start harping on your appearance, you've won.

    That makes me laugh. At them, mostly and with you.

    Im sorry your former, hate filled, lack of Christs love community comes to crap all over your lovely blog.

    I still believe in you.

    If you feel down about their comments, Im guessing Harris might have some good ideas for stress relief. Just sayin'

    Ciao, bella!

    Jenny

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  114. (Sorry, I don't know how to make the proper quotations on this blog...)

    "Anonymous said... Shocked at how many "christians" spout off about love, but lower themselves horribly when someone disagrees with them....don't claim Christ if you don't plan to follow his example of love. He sat down with the sinners, he didn't run them off by calling them names and degrading them and himself. "

    Except, that is, for the Pharisees--he called them whitewashed sepulchers and beat them out of the temple with whips. Lots of warm fuzzies there.

    Melinda S.

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