Once again, a post on another website has started questioning whether I'm real or not. Once again, I'll say what I've said for almost four years now- it is up to every person reading this blog to decide if they trust that I am who I say I am. I won't fault anyone for having a healthy dose of skepticism about anything they read on the internet. I understand that I can't give the details that some people think would cement my "truth". I understand that my choice to be anonymous means that there will always be some people who don't believe me or my story. There's no comfortable way for me to prove to everyone that I am who I say I am.
I am, however, tired of being called a liar. I don't ask anyone to read and I don't ask anyone to donate. In fact, there's been some talk that I'm making a whole lot of money on this blog. That's not true. There's been a suggestion that there was a baby shower for Rachel. Not true. And, actually, when I think about, if I were faking this story for four years and I created a pregnant sister to get money or gifts, then wouldn't it have been more prudent to have let my sister go to her due date in some story to give people more time? As it was, I wasn't comfortable accepting gifts for her for her an adoption and, as it turned out, she gave birth before anyone could plan to do anything. She went early. That's life. I don't know what to say about the tip jar. It's there because there are some people who occasionally like to donate. If anyone thinks I'm raking in the money, then I'd be happy to show someone I've grown to trust here the real data and let them verify that this is not the case. Then I think about how ridiculous that seems and I just think it'd be easier to take the tip jar down.
My sister picking a gay couple is not a "plot point". As I stated, she didn't pick them because they were gay or as a "screw you" to the family. She chose them because they had the qualities she wanted for her child. We chose a secular agency and I was amazed by the number of gay couples on their lists. Possibly because it was a secular agency and other agencies don't allow gays to adopt? Saying that it's impossible for an ex-ATI girl to think giving her child to a gay couple is ignorant. My sister is a woman with her own thoughts. She hasn't bought into most of Gothard's principles or social beliefs for a few years- otherwise, she wouldn't have left! If you recall, one reason she wanted to give her baby up for adoption was because she didn't want it involved in patriarchy or fundamentalism. Not that a heterosexual couple would've gone to fundamentalism but there's less of a chance with Ellie's parents than with a heterosexual couple, that's for sure. Gothard wouldn't let Ellie's parents through the front door!
There are people who know my name. People I trust. They aren't coming forward because I've asked them not to. That doesn't mean it won't come out someday. In the meantime, if you think I'm lying, then don't participate. If you gave me a donation AT ANY POINT and you didn't get the thank you you wanted, then please e-mail me or post here and I will refund you. I've offered this before and I mean it. Please contact me. You deserve to be comfortable with any organization you donate to. I'll admit, and I've said it before, I'm horrible at getting thank yous done on time. That's why I usually try to do blanket thank yous here on the blog. Paypal doesn't always include an e-mail on donations and some people will ask me not to identify them. Other times, it's weeks before I get online or check paypal and by that point, I feel bad for not noticing it sooner or thanking people sooner. That's definitely something I can work on.
Ruth, I've read you from the very beginning. You were one of the first blogs I read that lead me to read about ATI, Quiverfull, the Duggars et al. I don't care if I ever find out your name. You have been an inspiration to a lot of people. I hope that you and Rachel can find each other as friends again and sisters when the time is right.
ReplyDeleteKeep telling the truth. I am sure that your Father cannot understand the freedom of the soul that you are experiencing, being so indoctrinated to the false teachings of Goddard.
Blessings to you and Rachel this week.
amulbunny
I guess I just don't understand why anyone would care one way or the other if your story is real. I mean, I have no reason not to believe you, but if I found out this blog was fiction, it would be no skin off my back. I can't imagine getting all worked up about it.
ReplyDeleteIt would make for much better PR for ATI however if this blog turned out to be fake and my guess is that those who accuse you of such are all to aware of and motivated by that fact.
The thread to which Ruth refers is at freejinger.org, which is a broad 'church', but which is most certainly not representative of ATI.
DeleteI am among the many on the same thread that tend to believe Ruth's story, but I completely understand and respect the healthy skepticism of others.
I agree with Nicki, above. I believe you, but I don't really care if you ARE making all this up. If you are making it up, you're a darn good storyteller ;)
ReplyDeleteRuth I have followed since the beginning and I have never doubted you. For those who do I don't know why they would waste their time reading or discouraging others from donating. As an adult woman I don't need strangers policing my spending habits. Don't let your doubters silence you. Your blog is valuable. Any money you have collected has been given freely by those who appreciated your story. Please dont take down the tip jar.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget why you started blogging in the first place. It is powerful to share your story -- helping you separate lies from truth, and also powerful for those of us who came from repressive religious backgrounds.
ReplyDeleteThe fear that is implanted in such an upbringing is insidious, and seems to always lurk in the heart. It's a trap to be too concerned with criticism (especially online anonymous criticism!) -- it just feeds the same fear mentality that you left behind. I find that even though I have rejected certain ways of believing, the disapproval of others flares up that fear. The only thing to do is just completely reject the fear -- the voice of accusation can never be quieted or appeased.
Be kind to yourself Ruth.
I know you are exhausted by all of this, so the blows of accusation are bruising more than "normal". But please don't take down the tip jar, because nobody who doesn't believe you would be using it anyway. Use your delete button, it's there for a reason.
ReplyDeleteI'm a gramma, I have been around the block a few times, but I do understand that you feel attacked and undermined. Try to let it slide off your back, you have the blog for your own reasons. Use it for those reasons and let the rest of the world believe it or not.
Well, I've been around the internet for a while (starting as a naive teenager). I've seen a handful of grifters and con artists, and I don't think Ruth's one of them. For one thing, her story's consistent -- most people who are making a story up for attention/pity/to get money will throw in another level of drama any time the attention lulls. And it's extreme and inconsistent -- one individual claimed a firing, a bad breakup, getting engaged and moving with the fiance, another bad breakup, an apartment fire, and at least one stalker over the span of about six months (and in three different states). Ruth has been consistent, and the "new stuff" is more of the same -- family issues, keeping up with school, taking care of herself (and now Rachel). I haven't seen anything to doubt.
ReplyDeleteRuth, I don't think you're a liar. Your upbringing's not "normal", but most people aren't raised in abusive families and in cults AND nearly forced to marry an abuser. Most people aren't trying to get through college (without any family support), and support themselves, AND plan for the future, AND working through a childhood like yours. Honestly, I'd rather know that you're going to work (and getting paid) and keeping up with classes than get a personal thank-you e-mail for a donation. You're a woman trying to get through life, not a well-structured non-profit organization.
Anyone who thinks this blog is a lie? Go somewhere else. Seriously.
You owe no one any explanations. If you're lying, then I am entertained by the good yarn.
ReplyDeleteMy great grandmother used to say, "A lie well told and stuck to, is as good as the truth any day."
But, for the record, wherever it may be and for whomever is keeping it; I don't think you are lying....and there are a lot of people who think the same as me.
I hope that you will keep telling your story, be it fiction or non. You keep my attention....and little else does these days.
But, I would like to someday know who you are....when and if you are ever ready.
DeleteI like you.
Yeah, I'm with you -- I don't read this blog for the next crazy thing that comes up. I read it because I like Ruth, and I want her life to improve (and Rachel's life, too).
DeleteGirlfriend, you are one crappy con artist. You have blown COUNTLESS opportunities to get us to send you fistfuls of cash. What is WRONG with you??? Thank GOODNESS the internet is full of kind, caring individuals who are warning clueless strangers about this tangled web you've woven.
ReplyDeleteNOT.
Seriously, those idiots out there who apparently have nothing better to do than worry about whether or not you're real are in desperate need of a life. As for sending out thank yous for donations, speaking as one who has donated several times, I really don't care. I know you appreciate it, and that's all that matters to me. :-)
Now go turn your energies to things that are actually important. Your naysayers simply aren't.
First of all, not everybody who is skeptical of Ruth's story is an idiot. I am a commenter on the thread she is referencing and most of it is fairly benign, with a few trolls, who get called out pretty quickly. Lowering yourself to make personal attacks makes you only slightly better than the trolls who come here and attack Ruth.
DeleteA lot of the skeptics wish Ruth well and support her. The truth is we have no way of knowing what Ruth makes off the donations because she does not tell us, but more importantly IT IS HER RIGHT to keep that a secret, so people need to back off. IMO there is no harm in acknowledging that truth, however. Why resort to personal attacks when you can face your critics with logic? You will just mirror the trolls you condemn.
Ruth, I really do with you would address the personal attacks that your "supportive" commenters make to others on the blog. I am speaking in general, not really of jennl777, because her comment is fairly benign, but there has been some fairly nasty name calling. I would not want friends of mine supporting me in that way when it's completely unnecessary.
Jodi, I AM referring to the trolls and the people who apparently have nothing better to do than dissect Ruth's blog then attack her here and elsewhere which is, I'm sorry, completely idiotic and I stand by my statement. No, I don't think everyone who is skeptical is an idiot; believing Ruth's story does require (for lack of a better phrase) a leap of faith, and not all readers are going to take that leap. Healthy skepticism is one thing; nasty personal attacks are quite another.
DeleteRuth,
ReplyDeleteI understand why some of the comments can be hurtful. The forum you refer to is created for the purpose of "snark". It is not really a surprise that some of the members snark on you (and one another). It might help to keep that perspective. Doubt is a a double edged sword. Another think to know about that forum is that there is a wide span of ages and life experiences. It turns out that I think you are telling the truth. However, I have had many hurts in my life that have made me dubious about the intentions of others. Some of the suspicion comes from a place of past experience where people have had their trust breached in ways that you story triggers that feeling.
All of that said, I left you a little something n the tip jar. I have no need of a formal thank you. I did it because I wanted to do so. My mom gets very nasty if she doesn't get a big formal thank you for every little nice thing she does. It became very damaging to her relationships with other people. (Just as this situation has become) I gave from my heart. I have read your story uncensored and without cost to me. Keep writing. I hope one day that you feel safe enough to not look over your shoulder being worried about being "foud out". Until then, do what you need to do.
It hurts when people make nasty comments about your character and it's hard to not respond and defend yourself when they do so. It's a fight or flight mentality.
ReplyDeleteI am a poster at freejinger, that's how I learned about you. I believe you and your story. As has been said before your story is consistent, and that is hard to pull off after more than a few months. I wish both you and Rachel well, and hope someday when you are healed you can share who you are, and maybe even write a book about growing up in ATI.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, there are times I believe Ruth, and times when I get a bout of skepticism. There's noting wrong with a bit of skepticism. But I don't have much of a problem with the TipJar or donations. How many webcomics or webstories are there where the author BEGS for donations or where they bribe you "I'll give you another story if you reach this much in donations!"? Sure, Ruth brings it up ONCE in a while, but it's not so that she can quit school or her job.
ReplyDeleteEven if it's a work of fiction, it truly is a captivating tale. And I can only hope that things get better for Ruth.
When you're anonymous writing a blog claiming various things about an organization such as ATI you're inviting being called a liar. There are plenty of real stories about ATI from people who have published their names that it really calls into question whether any of the stuff you write sis true. If you're telling the truth, release you're name. It's been four years since you allegedly broke away. How come all the other ATI folks who have negative things to say leave their real name but you can't?
ReplyDeleteBefore I start: I'm not saying you shouldn't be skeptical. There are good reasons for doubt, as Ruth herself has admitted.
DeleteHowever, the question you just asked has been answered several times. The gist of it, IIRC, is that Ruth says she has received threats of legal action if she reveals who she really is. Assuming for the moment that Ruth's story is true, even if any claims brought against her were baseless, it still costs money to defend against them, and she can't afford that. There is also an element of concern for her family; at this point, working with ATI/Gothard/etc. is their entire livelihood, and Ruth has said that she worries that if she really went public, it would affect their standing, their income, and/or the treatment of the kids who are still "at home".
Now, obviously you can decide for yourself whether or not those are satisfactory answers, and whether or not you believe them. (For that matter, so can everyone else here.) But your question has been answered already.
Truth is an absolute defense. There is no legal action that can be taken against Ruth for revealing the truth about who she is, so long as her story is actually true. She should only be concerned if she's lying and thus slandering ATI and Gothard.
DeleteAs for her family, are we to believe that a family that has thrown two daughters out of the house (one of them knocked up) and has had one son leave the movement has any standing within ATI? Just based on ATI's beliefs as stated by the real people, with real names, over at Recovering Grace it seems absurd that a family with three problem children wouldn't be tossed from the ATI inner circle, if not outright shunned.
This is where Ruth's story falls apart for me. The extreme nature of her father's conduct was believable at first, it wasn't all that far fetched. But as time has gone on the stories are fit too perfectly into the anti-ATI model. That coupled with the refusal to reveal a real name despite all of the family problems that we know would result in an ATI family being tossed out of the inner circle or shunned lead me to believe this blog is just a baseless anti-ATI attack. It's so ridiculous too, there's plenty of real ATI stuff to attack.
Of course the family would still have standing in ATI. The problems would just be blamed on the kids. That's how abusive systems like this work--the victims are blamed.
DeleteLegal action can be taken against Ruth if she reveals her name. The courts will find in her favour if she's telling the truth (which I think she is), but in the meantime, it'll cost her a lot of time, effort, emotional stability, and money, none of which she can afford, to defend herself. Also, people like Ruth's father do successfully bully the legal system, and they can cause a lot of grief even if the rulings go against them. Defending against legal action is a huge hassle even if you win.
Also, per the latest post, I was wrong about the harassment-by-lawsuit angle.
DeleteFor the sake of argument, let's say she's worried about a lawsuit. She has everything working in her favor, not the least of which would be truth if she is telling the truth. Truth is an absolute defense. Even if she isn't telling the truth, her folks would have to prove damages. What are their damages? They would actually have to show that their reputation is ruined, that they've lost money in business because of libelous statements etc.
DeleteIt's also my understanding that Ruth and her folks live in different states, which means her folks would have to file suit in Federal court. That court would likely have to be in the state where Ruth is located. If her folks have no money they aren't going to file a Federal case in a state not their own.
But again, if Ruth is telling the truth (which I highly doubt) then she has an absolute defense. She has no reason not to reveal who she is. The idea that an ATI family with two wayward daughters, one a whore in their minds and a wayward son isn't damaged of their own accord is absurd. Ruth's excuses are weak.
She has several reasons to remain anonymous--her underage brothers and sisters who are still in the clutches of her father and mother. I was raised in an ATI-affiliated family and I have a younger sibling who is still in the home. I have silenced myself, compromised my beliefs and safety, spent tens of thousands of dollars, and put my life on hold so that child will not suffer even more because of my parents' reactions to what they perceive my behavior and motives to be. My situation is nowhere near as severe as Ruth's, and still I do these things so my sibling will have a marginally better life than I did. Ruth has already related what Rachel shared with her about how much worse life got for the children left behind after Ruth left. She is functioning in a hostage situation and she has nothing she has to prove to you or anyone else by revealing absolute, concrete proof of the validity of her life story.
DeleteAll I'll say is this: From my personal experiences as an abused child from a fundie Gothard family, and as a medical and mental health professional who has helped others with their journeys of healing from similar backgrounds I can confirm that every single thing Ruth has written on this blog rings true. You cannot fake this stuff unless you were steeped in it from birth. You cannot fake the mind-bendingly hard path of trying to deprogram from this lifestyle. The chaos experienced by Ruth and her other escaped siblings is absolutely normal, to be expected, and is anything but a ploy for attention and pity. Shame on you, Steven Birn, for adding to the victim-blaming which seeks to silence those who have been utterly devastated by this lifestyle just so that you can affirm your ultra conservative worldview and feel self-satisfied that you know the "truth."
I too grew up in a profoundly dysfunctional family. Although there was no official dogma behind it, patriarchy, narcissism and sociopathic relationships were all a huge part of my upbringing too. That is why your blog has always felt true to me. I applaud you for telling your story. I shy away from telling my because I’m always afraid that no one will believe me – that they will feel that I’m the crazy one and that I’m exaggerating things. Or that anyone from a home like that must be that nuts as well. And sometimes that’s how people have reacted to my story.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who has grown up in a reasonably functional family where parents were capable of love (mine weren’t), just has no frame of reference for how things work in a profoundly dysfunctional home and I could see them not believing Ruth’s story. To them I say, congratulations… you won the birth lottery. Many of us were not so lucky. Telling our stories and being supported by people who understand is one of the most effective ways of healing from an entire childhood of warped parenting.
Nobody is begging anybody to put tips in the jar. As for the name? Give it up.....who cares? She is entitled to do as she wishes. Just as you are if you don't or do want to give a tip.
ReplyDeleteAs for the gay adoptive parents vs ATI.....again who cares?
I don't understand why people have to make such a big deal out of someone else's life.
Just read and thank God this is not your life!
If Ruth is worried about money, she should write a tell-all book, naming names and details. Seriously. I'm sure an agent or editor has offered her a lot of money to tell her story. Why hasn't she taken advantage of that opportunity? She's got the basis of the book here in her blog posts, already written.
ReplyDeleteA tell-all book would also protect her from her father's legal threats. Ruth's book would have to be vetted prior to publication to ensure the facts are accurate. Once that's proven, her father could file lawsuit after lawsuit with no results. The publisher would probably front some legal help for Ruth. [Nothing sells books like free publicity of a scandal and pending lawsuit.]
maybe when her youngest sibling is of age. This might get RUTH money.... I don't think she's going to throw her siblings under the bus for it.
Delete