Thursday, March 4, 2010


I've read the comments on the last entry. If you haven't, I suggest going back and reading them because there are some very insightful comments there. Instead of replying to them all one-by-one, I decided to make this a post and get it all "answered" or "weighed in" in one punch.

I think homeschooling can work out very well. I have met and spoke with many h/s parents and kids in my life - some of those people are the most gifted people I know. My issue is with ATI and it's method of homeschooling. The Wisdom Books are not enough and you need a parent who's invested in educating her children - not popping out enormous quantities of kids.

My mom was a certified teacher with a lot to give us. She was limited in giving us what she wanted to give us by patriarchy and the standards of her faith. I was very fortunate that she wouldn't bend on the math requirements and that I had, until I was nine, grandparents who sent me supplementary tools to learn from. If it weren't for that, I'd be a bad statistic.

@ATI people reading this- consider this not a libelous attack - it's my testimonial. Not all testimonials have to be positive. This is my review of how it worked in my house, in my life. Your experiences may differ.


  1. Keep speaking truth ~ that is what's important, and it is through truth that healing comes.

  2. Margaret/CappuccinoLifeMarch 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

    Thank you for your clarification. This homeschooling mom appreciates it. :)

  3. (((Ruth)))

    Your testimony is powerful and important.

    My personal opinion is that the whole ATI organization knows the Wisdom books are not adequate for a quality education. That's why they don't offer them for sale to the general public, only the brainwashed devotees.

    They know their "disciples" are well grounded in the lie that to question anything Bill Gothard puts out will get you "in trouble" with God.

    It's the Emporer's New Clothes bound up in a fancy leather book...

  4. I'm sorry for hijacking the last thread!

  5. So most ATI homeschoolers do not supplement the ATI curriculum?

    I know in the Duggars' book they talk about the other curricula that they use in addition to ATI, such as a program called Switched On Schoolhouse that has Bible, History and Geography, Science, Language Arts, Math, and several elective options for grades 3-12, among other things.

    I just assumed most people in ATI used supplementary materials as well. I'm more and more glad my husband and I have decided not to join ATI. I guess I assumed anyone would look at that and realize it was not a full curriculum, but just *part* of a curriculum.

    Mrs P

  6. Shadowspring--so right! Great testimonial, Ruth!

  7. what the Lord hath wroughtMarch 5, 2010 at 7:27 AM

    The countenance of a Christian on fire with the true blessing of the LORD is missing from you. You had a hedge of thorns prayed around you but still you WILLINGLY left that protection to follow Satan into the world. ATI will thrive all the more in Christ's glory without you in it. You are a Judas. You are a whisperer! I PRAY YOU STOP THIS HORRIBLE SLANDER AGAINST THE GREAT MAN WHO TOOK YOU UNDER HIS UMBRELLA OF AUTHORITY TO PROTECT YOU.

  8. He's baaaaaaack. I kind of miss him when he's not around.

    I want a hedge of thorns around me! Can I get one on Ebay or do I have to join this bat-shit crazy cult? Gee, I think I'll take my chances with Satan. He seems a bit more sane than you people.

  9. Oooohhhh, a whisperer! Dun dun duuuunnnn.

    One more time. Libel is written, slander is spoken. Also, it's not libelous if it's true.

  10. "I know in the Duggars' book they talk about the other curricula that they use in addition to ATI, such as a program called Switched On Schoolhouse."

    As far as I can tell from putting bits and pieces together, they did not add SOS until after the show, after TWOP, after receiving criticism from viewers for their home school methods.

  11. @March 6, 6:47 am

    I would have a lot more respect for you if you would at least stop hiding between complete anoyminity (sp)...


    If by "GREAT MAN" you mean BG...that's a laugh...let's see he's cult-like, controlling, not under anyone's authority HIMSELF, has a low view of women, etc. etc. I thought all these things BEFORE I EVER read Ruth's blog. FOR THE RECORD, many PASTORS in many BIBLE BELIEVING churches strongly dislike BG, as their followers often cause contention in the churches.

  13. Sorry, meant to say, "as HIS followers..

  14. Rebekah--

    I think any curriculum would be more effective if someone was actually teaching it. The show clearly shows the kids in front of computers, alone, with little to no supervision. It would be nice to see the kid's mom actually leading discussions or go over information.

    I'm afraid they walk in, flip on the computer, hit a few buttons and walk out.

    I don't have much experience, but I would think if there were TV cameras, I'd make it look like I was taking the education part more seriously. The people at TWOP are not the only ones who notice this stuff!

  15. Could this clown throw in any more Gothardisms? Listen, a$$hole. I don't know if you're Ruth's pops or not, the truth is: I don't really care! Ruth is a grown woman who has the protection-of-the-ability-to-see-through-your-bull-spit. If she were my daughter, then I'd be the proudest dad on earth. I mean, wtf, dude?!?!?!

  16. Someone remind me... does praying a hedge of thorns mean praying for something bad to happen to shove the whisperer back under the great man's umbrella, or is it more of a general protection thing?

    Ruth, once again, congratulations on the continued construction of your own umbrella. As for the others, I hope the weather keeps fine.

  17. So, Lord Hath Wrought, I'm confused about your purpose here. Do you think these absurd but insulting and offensive non sequiturs will bring Ruth crawling back under your despotic thumb? Or are you thinking that your comments will ruin her reputation among the rest of us? Either way, it's not working. You are only succeeding in making yourself and your beliefs look even more ridiculous than we all thought. If you are concerned about your own reputation (as presumably you must be or you wouldn't lurk in anonymity), parading around in the Emperor's Clothes isn't a good way to maintain your status. Seems to me that if the Gothard Club is better off without our Ruth, then you would simply say "good riddance to bad rubbish" and strut back to your other bootlickers without giving her another thought. But maybe I'm missing the point. Why DO you keep coming around with your Bible misquotes and absurd accusations?

  18. "What the Lord hath wrought said...

    The countenance of a Christian on fire with the true blessing of the LORD is missing from you. You had a hedge of thorns prayed around you but still you WILLINGLY left that protection to follow Satan into the world. ATI will thrive all the more in Christ's glory without you in it. You are a Judas. You are a whisperer! I PRAY YOU STOP THIS HORRIBLE SLANDER AGAINST THE GREAT MAN WHO TOOK YOU UNDER HIS UMBRELLA OF AUTHORITY TO PROTECT YOU.
    March 5, 2010 7:27 AM"

    And I might add... "ATI will thrive all the more" without ALL of us who were wronged by the system that upheld itself without regard for the well being of those being covered by "umbrella of protection", its more like squashed and smothered til there is nothing but little blue and white cookie cutters running around without brains - just little yes men - You don't care about the countenance other than the happy facade of lies that are covered up. YES I would "WILLINGLY" leave a system [hedge of protection] so messed up that it doesn't value me a person!!
    ex-pilot ATI daughter




  20. Oh, goody, Lord Hath Wrought (Darth Vader) is back. Seriously, the more that I read about this Bill Gothard and his ATI, the more normal my past life seems and that's saying a lot. I've had about 30 years to get past my weird type upbringing via Sister Ellen White and my SDA religion, but this Bill Gothard takes the whole cake (including the frosting).

    Lord Hath Wrought, Bill Gothard and your cronies are very dramatic actors. I nominate you for the Fundie Oscar awards for best actor in a dramatic role. Everything about you people revolves around stoning, death, hell, Satan...good golly Miss Molly, do you ever smile, laugh, or feel love in your heart? Ever hear the Olivia Newton-John song, "Have you ever been mellow"?

    Go get yourself a cold brewski or glass of wine and chill out. It's Friday night, for heaven's sake. Give yourself (and us) a break.

  21. Heck, Friday night is the PERFECT time to form a circle and condemn people to hell. What else are they supposed to do? Read? Perform acts of charity? Read the Bible? Hee!

    I wonder if this site was created to make everyone feel better about their families? I have told my parents that I appreciate them educating me and supporting me several times the past month. I think Darth is starting to look like a concerned parents by this standards.

    Again, BG needs to hire a PR person and shut these posters down. It's making them look like a crazy cult.

  22. Cynthia, good points. :)

    P.S. - LOL - about Darth starting to look like a concerned parent by these standards! :)

  23. Cynthia, I'm totally right there with you. I miss Darth Vader when he's not around. Every time I read his posts, I laugh out loud.

    Lord Hath Wrought, are you trying to convince us all that you are full-on batshit crazy? Because congratulations, you have once again made a believer out of me. The more you post those archaic Bible verses that I'm sure are just cherry-picked, the more you give weight to Ruth's story. And, I might add, the more you put all of us firmly behind her. And "umbrella of authority?" Oh dear jeebus on a Cheeze-it! What is with you pyscho people using those ridiculous phrases? Do you honestly think what you say sounds intimidating? If that's the case, I need to fill up my wine glass to endure this. It is Friday after all. =)

    Ruth, although I think that these comments by Lord Hath Wrought (oh look, he gave himself a name, but I prefer Darth Vader) might still hold some weight, just let it roll off the duck's back. His comments are absurd and comedic. Laugh at him! It's the best way to screw with him. *hugs* Happy Friday!

  24. LOL...jeebus on a Cheeze it. I think I have a new favorite term.

    I agree with Gothic. These postings are little reminders of what you escaped. I kind of look forward to them because it livens up the place.

    Ah, the good days when we'd burned witches at the stake and sacrifice a few virgins during a feisty game of Yahtzee.

  25. Anonymous said...




    Hee hee hee hee!

  26. Cynthia, you played Yahtzee at your witch burnings and virgin sacrifices? My clan always went for Parcheesi! And please feel free to partake of my usage of the phrase of awesomeness. =)

    I agree, the comments by Darth Vader do liven everything up, and give Team Ruth even more ammo for backing her up. You rock Ruth!

    The only thing that bugs me about his so-called comments is the use of crap names. I understand the need for anonymity, but the names he uses totally gives me a vibe of much-more-holier-than-thou.

  27. LOL...we were from a small rural mountain village. There were 28 varieties of Baptists, but no dancing, drinking or fun. It was hard enough to find a virgin for the Yahtzee games.

    I have to give Darth this. First, he makes me want to encourage Luke to find his daddy and give him a hug. And second, I can totally hear the voice of James Earl Jones in his posts. I think that's why I look forward to them so much. It adds flavor to the bat shit crazy content.

    And the posting names just give it that extra special something. We should start giving him scores for the truly creative ones.

    Cynthia (who has no ability to pick names, hence I get a 2 for creativity)

  28. Oh MAN, the latest from "Darth", yes!

    My husband speaks in the bass range, maybe I can get him to read it and record it in a remotely JEJ manner ;)

  29. I have been thinking about the fact that the fundamentalist movement is really into a "simple" lifestyle. It is common for them to live in rural areas and stay away from "worldly" people and things. But they certainly do love digital technology....this internet for spreading the word, for educating their children.

    It reminds me of the Muslim fundamentalists. They live in the 6th century....except for digital technology.

  30. Cynthia, I know what you mean. I can totally hear JEJ's voice in the posts too. I keep waiting for this: "search your feelings you know it to be true." Course right around that time, hands will fly.

    I think that not only should we give Darth scores on the names (I give Lord Hath Wrought a 3, at least it's better than Anonymous, but still doesn't project the uber batshit crazy vibe we know he has), we should do one of the worst possible things for his ilk: making a drinking game out of his posts. Because, let's face it, alcohol is of the devil. Oh no, do I need a hedge of thorns now?

    Here are some ideas: every time he uses the word "countenance," take a shot. Every time he spells "lord" in all caps, take a shot. Every time he misuses a legal phrase, finish your drink.

  31. LOL...JEJ rules. Perhaps I need more caps for religious emphasis.

    I like the drinking game. I think we need something special for "Disciple" and "Wrath".
    Maybe something light for quotation of biblical versus.

    Arms flying, indeed. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe they think they can use the force, hence all the crazy?

  32. Oh, Cynthia--OF COURSE they can use the Force. That's what all the fundy furor was over Star Wars in the Seventies. How dare anyone but the True Christians learn to access the spiritual power to move mountains and raise the dead, and OMG forgive sin! Fundies think they OWN the Force (they just don't call it that, but a rose by any other name will smell as sweet).

    Dear Ruth,

    Now that I've barged onto your blog and engaged everyone but you, I owe you an apology for not even a nod to the hostess. Thank you and your counselor for suggesting this blog as a process of semi-public therapy. Not only do you get to work through your issues but we all can process some of our own crap at the same time. I'm glad you take the effort to put yourself and your story out here and I hope you get at much encouragement from your followers as we do in following your journey.

  33. Ditto Sandra, Gothic Rose and Cynthia (though I am a light weight and hence the drinking game would leave me comatose in no time- I love the idea! =)

    Heal on, Ruth. There is no need for umbrellas on sunny days, which unless you live in Washington state are the majority of days. Live your life in the sun!

    If it does rain, you can get an umbrella for cheap at Kmart.

    God (yes I am a believer) loves you! God is love. God is not the cosmic punisher of people who cross B.G.

    That is the ultimate in megalomania- Billy G (and your dad too?) control God! Wow. When they tell God to punish someone, God gets right on it, huh?

    If they have so much power over God why don't they use it for good? Ask God to end the sexual exploitation of children world-wide or give man wisdom to invent a reliable earthquake early warning system, something USEFUL!

    What god hath wrought? roflmao. What crazy hyper-inflated egos hath wrought!

  34. Wasn't "What god hath wrought" the first telegraph message sent? Mayhap our poster thinks he's Samuel Morris and not God? Err Gothard, I mean.

    I thought this was a timely article. I didn't realize how hard it is for less fundie homeschoolers to get books that fit their particular take on education.

    And I mean that with no disrespect to any of the fine posters here. I just thought there were people who didn't like the public school product, people who were religious nuts, and not much in bewteen. I live in this area and it's interesting that so many people are interested in material that isn't so fundie. I consider this state to be hyper religious and not very well educated in general. It's nice to see how much effort parents are putting into finding the right books for their family.

    Thank you for educating me on this topic!

    Cyn (dodging umbrellas, thorns, drinking glasses and high fat food from Applebees)

  35. Interesting link, Cyn. Thanks for posting it.

    I think the article is wrong to equate evangelical with creation science. Home schooling for moral or religious reasons does not mean one ascribes to creation science or creation science only.

    My school is registered as a religious school because that gives me a two-fer on civil rights issues: right to determine the upbringing of my child and religious freedom. And I am religious so it's not a lie, though I would still be religious even if my kids went to public school (which is not against my religion, just not my choice).

    I got my textbook by enrolling my oldest in OU High School Online for biology. I had to buy the book for the course, and it has been good to have around. (Holt Rinehart Wilson)

    But that course was expensive, around $500. Not everyone can afford that sort of thing.

  36. Shadowspring,

    That's a crazy price for a course. Does that include teaching materials or just a book? I hear that some of the people I know use the great courses series, which I actually listen to at work. Those are expensive enough, but I can imagine that if you had to buy a lot of new classes at the same time, those prices could build up over time.

    I think they equated the evangelical with creationism because many parents who home school for religion tend to lean that way.

    I know a lot of very religious people who are not creationists, so I'm sure that's just one view. And plus, this state is very very conservative. Mark Twain once said he wanted to be here when the end of time came because it was always 20 years behind.

    It's also the main reason I want to get out of Dodge. I'm way too liberal to stay here for much longer!

  37. Yes, it came with instruction. Plus the courses are "fully regionally accredited", the reason for the big bucks.

    All parents do is pay up and find an approved proctor for the tests.


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